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F is for Fascism (Ferguson MO)

significant wealth redistribution via taxation

there's no way around the zero-sum element of this, in my opinion
 
Louis Gossett Jr said:
It’s like the one time where proper use of force and the police having guns comes into play, i get it for consistency you have to go all in for all police killings but you won’t find anywhere close to majority support. This isn’t call the police I have a gun and it’s only me around, it’s only me alone with a knife im coming at you just maybe tase me, this is active fighting with a knife with the potential to kill others.
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The cops killed the person who called them for help. Again, I don’t understand how a 16 year old with a knife is more dangerous than a cop with a gun.

The people who were actually there weren’t grateful the cop shot her. They didn’t think he saved their lives. They were angry. Why do you think you understand the situation better than them? The lack of empathy in your post is jarring.
 
Because we have this idea that everything the police do is automatically bad, a person with a knife in an active fighting situation is bad period. Like I said it’s not a hypothetical where they were shot just waving the knife around, they were engaged.
 
agree this is a tough situation. in addition to some of the last few posts i would say that living in a society where guns are so commonplace it probably tends to put police in a situation where they immediately escalate as far as they "can" for fear of the unknown and the people in the crowd pulling a gun. real gun reform might take some of that fear away and a cop in this situation might make the very difficult heat-of-the-moment decision that less force is required.
 
Louis Gossett Jr said:
Because we have this idea that everything the police do is automatically bad, a person with a knife in an active fighting situation is bad period. Like I said it’s not a hypothetical where they were shot just waving the knife around, they were engaged.
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Wow. Again, the people who were there disagree with you.
 
Ph, I'd like to know your thoughts on a situation like this, where someone is getting ganged up on and someone is using a knife to attack people (in what could be self-defense) -- what does public safety look like?

I don't have a hard time articulating my thinking on long-term strategies for avoiding these issues in the (what feels like distant) future, but I do have a hard time knowing how to think about handling public safety now in the society we live
 
Ok so run me through the scenario that has your preferred outcome. Police show up, welfare call, active situation, etc... doesn’t really matter. As they arrive there is active fighting, one of the participants has a knife, person with the knife is in the process of attacking another, what do you do?
 
If somebody's trying to knife me and the cop standing there doesn't shoot them and I get stabbed I'm gonna be pissed.
 
Juice i haven’t read it yet, but this might help w some of your questions.

 
PhDeac said:
Wow. Again, the people who were there disagree with you.
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Have you watched the video? She was mid arm swing into plunging a massive knife into the other girl.

I doubt the girl whose life was saved disagrees.
 
I don’t understand why non-lethal options like pepper spray, batons, taser, etc are perfectly legit to use on peaceful protesters but not someone with a knife. The goal should be to stop the person with a knife not kill them.

Here’s a question for you, Louis. What should someone do when two people are fighting and they want to help stopping the fight but they don’t want either person to die?
 
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only watched the video once. however, there were a lot of bystanders. in a stressful situation the risk goes up for the officer to miss their target and hit someone else. police often get a shockingly low amount of range time and training with their weapons. the officer pulled his gun before there was a knife out.

do the rules of engagement allow for one of the people in the active fight situation to get hit with the taser before they pull a weapon? does pulling your weapon immediately escalate everything around you? if the cop tased the dude kicking a woman/girl? in the head from behind does that deescalate the situation enough for the other officers coming onto the screen to help get things under control before she pulls the knife?

its really not cut and dry though at first glance it seems to be. many of my questions are long term changes that need to be made systemically. i would also, be more inclined to listen to arguments that this SPECIFIC instance the police office should get the benefit of the doubt. problem is in so many situations cops that should not get the benefit of the doubt have and will continue to do so that when there is legit need for that it gets really murky. "here we go again..."
 
I do not see how a massive reduction in guns is not a part of good public safety and I do not see how you go about a massive reduction in guns with guns by the enforcers, who I believe should also not have guns
 
If you actually watch the video, the cops show up and announce themselves, no one heeds them and they keep fighting or whatever, and immediately one pushes another into a car and is mid-swing with a knife aimed at the girl's chest. The cop shoots her and possibly saves the other girl's life or at least serious injury. This is all happens in less than about 15 seconds.

While I think it makes a lot of sense to consider tasing and other less lethal forms to slow someone down (particularly when they are running), violently trying to stab someone right in front of a cop isn't the best scenario to argue police brutality.
 
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Probably depends on the circumstances. If one person has a knife and the other doesn’t then probably would concentrate on the one with the knife. Then you have your pepper spray, your tasers, batons, and other non-lethal weapons. However the use of those would require separation from others since no non-lethal weapon actually puts someone down immediately. So in the above scenario you could prevent the death as long as the two people fighting are separated. In the actual scenario where the person with the knife has someone pinned to a car in a back swing, your options are non-lethal and risk the person with the knife injuring/killing the person being attacked with it, or you go with what you know will stop them. That’s why it’s not a clear picture, and not just police bad they killed someone.
 
And here's the kicker: If the policeman hadn't shot and killed her, some on this thread would be saying she doesn't even belong in prison.
 
The answer is most likely nothing since the 3rd party doesn't want to become collateral damage. That is probably what this cop should have done. Let the one girl gut the other girl.. then arrest her as the other bleeds out. It sure wouldn't have made the news!


Though then there would be outrage that the cops watched it happen. They are in a lose-lose situation. I don't understand why anyone would be a cop these days.
 
We know exactly nothing about a child's motivation. Scared. Harassed. Self defense. A hole instigator. Mental health breakdown. We do know biff is ok she's dead because... feelings?
 
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