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F is for Fascism (Ferguson MO)

I think the point here is hardly anyone here can imagine anyone they care about getting in a fight at a party that involves people grabbing for knives
 
stugotz said:
I think the point here is hardly anyone here can imagine anyone they care about getting in a fight at a party that involves people grabbing for knives
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Fair point. We’re all olds with money now.
 
This was when the cop fired his weapon, so what was he suppose to do, 15-20 feet away.

 
I'm gonna say that I dive for the knives, throw them at each party so their sleeves are attached to the wall. Then, we all laugh and have a beer.
 
PhDeac said:
Here’s a decent standard. Cops should be able to disarm a girl with a knife. Weak ass punks who rely on their gun shouldn’t be in the job.
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Agreed. I think in this specific instance, a cop should be able to whack that girl's arm with a baton. It might break her arm, but it's not going to kill her. If the cop didn't have a gun, that's what I assume they would do. That's what would happen in many countries, and that's why other countries have so many fewer police killings. If police in the US were only dealing with knife threats, it would be very easy to argue that few police should be carrying guns. However, since our country is overrun with guns, it's a completely different story.
 
Louis Gossett Jr said:
This was when the cop fired his weapon, so what was he suppose to do, 15-20 feet away.

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he pulled his firearm in response to this man kicking the woman. does that man deserve to be shot for kicking her? tased? the girl comes from his left and runs toward the person in pink before pulling the knife. if he pulled his taser because the man was not holding a weapon could his attention that pivoted from him to her running to a fight and hit her as she was running to fight? at this point he could not put away his weapon and pull the taser in time so he shot. what if his default was taser out because of unarmed man assaulting a woman/kid? is everyone still alive?
 
Louis Gossett Jr said:
This was when the cop fired his weapon, so what was he suppose to do, 15-20 feet away.

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He could have just as easily shot the girl in pink.

From what I saw the cop chose to wave his gun instead of physically intervene from the beginning.
 
deaconson said:
he pulled his firearm in response to this man kicking the woman. does that man deserve to be shot for kicking her? tased? the girl comes from his left and runs toward the person in pink before pulling the knife. if he pulled his taser because the man was not holding a weapon could his attention that pivoted from him to her running to a fight and hit her as she was running to fight? at this point he could not put away his weapon and pull the taser in time so he shot. what if his default was taser out because of unarmed man assaulting a woman/kid? is everyone still alive?
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Just say shoot the girl and we'll move on

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PhDeac said:
Yet you think every cop is Deadshot.

Maybe the people tasked with protecting and serving should be in good enough shape to save a life instead of taking one. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. If we didn’t have so many cops and instead had a smaller group fit and smart enough to deal with these situations, they wouldn’t end in *pew pew*.

Feel free to answer my question. You’re at a party. Fight breaks out between two people you care about. Kitchen knives are within reach. You and the other people there can’t break it up yourselves. It’s escalating. You don’t want anyone to die. What do you do? Do you call the police knowing that you think the cops would be justified to kill one or both of them?

Oh and the two people fighting aren’t white.
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https://abc11.com/jamie-hahn-democrat-broyhill-jury-selection/547354/
 
stugotz said:
Just say shoot the girl and we'll move on

a2cQla4.gif
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not sure what you mean. if you want me to refer to every female in the video as a girl then i can't. i only know the girl with the knife is 16. everyone else could be any age so i am trying to to assume the guy kicked a kid. maybe she was 18+.

i realize these last few days you are in troll mode. i just don't know what this one means.
 
deaconson said:
he pulled his firearm in response to this man kicking the woman. does that man deserve to be shot for kicking her? tased? the girl comes from his left and runs toward the person in pink before pulling the knife. if he pulled his taser because the man was not holding a weapon could his attention that pivoted from him to her running to a fight and hit her as she was running to fight? at this point he could not put away his weapon and pull the taser in time so he shot. what if his default was taser out because of unarmed man assaulting a woman/kid? is everyone still alive?
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No he didn't. The police officer got out of his car and said, "Hey, what's going on?" and then WITH A POLICE OFFICER THERE approaching them, the woman in black shoved the person to the ground, the guy on the right started kicking the person on the ground, and the woman in black shoves the woman in pink who had otherwise just been standing there into the car and is about to murder her with a knife.
 
MichDeac25 said:
No he didn't. The police officer got out of his car and said, "Hey, what's going on?" and then WITH A POLICE OFFICER THERE approaching them, the woman in black shoved the person to the ground, the guy on the right started kicking the person on the ground, and the woman in black shoves the woman in pink who had otherwise just been standing there into the car and is about to murder her with a knife.
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apparently we watched different videos. woman hits the ground from a push. gun comes out and she gets kicked in the head. woman shoved to the ground. gun comes out.
 
deaconson said:
apparently we watched different videos. woman hits the ground from a push. gun comes out and she gets kicked in the head. woman shoved to the ground. gun comes out.
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We might be saying the same thing. The woman that hit the ground was pushed by the woman in black who then immediately rushed the girl in pink. I'd just say the officer is reacting to the collective show of force by the group, which was initiated by the woman in black shoving the person to the ground.
 
MichDeac25 said:
We might be saying the same thing. The woman that hit the ground was pushed by the woman in black who then immediately rushed the girl in pink. I'd just say the officer is reacting to the collective show of force by the group, which was initiated by the woman in black shoving the person to the ground.
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agree he appears to be reacting to the collective group by escalating to the top rung of the ladder by pulling his weapon. (systemic racism played a large factor here) however, could he have reacted at a lower level with physical restraint? a little higher than that with a taser? may have changed the dynamic significantly. once he went directly to the top i would argue someone was getting shot and maybe dying. tough to turn back with how quickly a fight turned much more dangerous and ultimately deadly.
 
Isn't it fairly easy to agree that the police officer was justified to use deadly force in that particular situation, but that it is also critical for our police departments to emphasize de-escalation methods and non-lethal force as we move forward? The idea of creating a more effective non-lethal weapon than the standard taser is a good one I had not considered.
 
deaconson said:
agree he appears to be reacting to the collective group by escalating to the top rung of the ladder by pulling his weapon. (systemic racism played a large factor here) however, could he have reacted at a lower level with physical restraint? a little higher than that with a taser? may have changed the dynamic significantly. once he went directly to the top i would argue someone was getting shot and maybe dying. tough to turn back with how quickly a fight turned much more dangerous and ultimately deadly.
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Okay, so yeah we disagree on the officer's reaction.

The officer didn't escalate it. The people just ignored the officer, even if he had a gun in his hand.
 
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I’m typically a F the police person. Not because I think all police are bad, but a large portion do act like bullies and the “good ones” end up covering up bad acts due to the “Blue Wall”, B/S.

But in this situation, I’m not sure it’s a realistic expectation to ask this cop to do something different. He was on the scene for like 10-15 seconds, and had a split-second decision to make as he sees the girl charge at the girl in pink with a knife.

Yes, in a perfect world maybe he could’ve pulled out the taser instead, but a taser is one shot and more prone to miss than a gun. I don’t think people would be happy either if he would’ve let the other girl be stabbed, so this was a tragic no-win situation for the cops and the people involved.

This is the problem I have with the defund the police movement, that it has this unrealistic expectation that all people always act rationally and there aren’t bad people or bad events that happen every day.

My long-term idea would be for police to not carry guns on them personally, but have them available in their cars if needed in certain situations. I’d also like to see car stops not allow police to ask people to get out of the vehicle unless there is a clear need to arrest the person in a case where someone’s life is in danger. We’d be so much better off either just writing someone a ticket or letting them go and then picking them up at their house later if they need to be arrested.

But we have so many guns in this country, cops would never agree to not be armed. We live in a messed-up society in which cops have abused minorities for years so there is no trust and I’m not sure how it ever gets better. We need cops, but we need them to have accountability as well, but it’s also a hard, thankless job in intense situations because everyone arm chair quarterbacks.
 
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