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F is for Fascism (Ferguson MO)

White conservative dudes are so persecuted. They are the real victims. They must flee the tunnels for safer ground.
 
The guy who left the boards for a few years and only posts on certain threads about certain topics is the only one who isn't afraid of an uncomfortable conversation.
 
The guy continuing a 70+ year pattern of conservative racist fearmongering talking about diversity of opinion is rich.
 
WokeandBroke said:
Me: "Minneapolis gunshot injuries are up 250% year over year. Are we sure this defund/depolice isn't backfiring and hurting the people it was supposed to help?"

Someone who wasn't up for an uncomfortable conversation:
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What's the DELTA on the stabbing rates in Minneapolis?
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
jh is a skilled debater because he slyly pushes conversations away from their substance by responding to a small piece of larger argument, often not in good faith, and then people engage on that
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THIS IS EXACTLY THE DEFINITION OF A STRAWMAN ARGUMENT!

take note people. What y'all are usually looking for is "red herring"
 
I'm curious where jhmd is articulating his own discomfort from these uncomfortable conversations, because I am missing it

his lack of response to any data beyond the municipal during crises may be too uncomfortable
 
wakephan09 said:
THIS IS EXACTLY THE DEFINITION OF A STRAWMAN ARGUMENT!

take note people. What y'all are usually looking for is "red herring"
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and he tells on himself along the way, bolding and responding to a single throwaway clause among an eight-sentence post with links to twenty-year longitudinal studies and global data
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
I'm curious where jhmd is articulating his own discomfort from these uncomfortable conversations, because I am missing it

his lack of response to any data beyond the municipal during crises may be too uncomfortable
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I'm uncomfortable with violent crime reversing decades-long downward trends and hitting 25 year highs across the country. I'm not sure the police reforms are going so well. You guys don't seem to have any questions.
 
WokeandBroke said:
I'm uncomfortable with violent crime reversing decades-long downward trends and hitting 25 year highs across the country. I'm not sure the police reforms are going so well. You guys don't seem to have any questions.
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of course we do and I've expressed my discomfort with the path from where we are to where I want to go, I push the abolition champions here for supporting evidence, I talk about my discomfort with (usually) feeling safe in the presence of police, about my misgivings around gun control and a militarized state, and so on

the rhetorical fallacy here is using "discomfort" for one side to talk about "tough issues" related to the statistics that undermine one side's position -- the realities of Minneapolis -- but then having discomfort for you be the statistics that promote your position -- the violence in Chicago -- as opposed to the proper comparison: the "uncomfortable" realities that the massive drops in violent crime are not paralleled with massive increase in police per capita or the the reality that the United States currentlyspends more than any other country on police and yet still ranks very middling related to the world on violent crime metrics; the latter is the data that is uncomfortable to your position that police alone are the cure to violence

but I'm done trying to get you to engage in good faith on this -- there is absolutely no point in engaging on the Minneapolis example because it will never be met with a good faith response on the macro-level data that uses 20+ years instead of one summer in one or two cities in a pandemic -- keep staking your position on the tree(s) in the forest of information and trumpet your concern for the South Side of Chicago, a place I happen to live and work and socialize and eat and so forth
 
PhDeac said:
What reforms?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_... was introduced on June,pending as of June 18.

26 states. 102 citations to media articles.

Chicago: On June 15, 2020, Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot announced the creation of a task force to review the Chicago Police Department's use of force policies.[38] Lightfoot said the department overhauled its policies after the DOJ's oversight agreement

Also Chicago: After 3 years of progress, Chicago’s murder tally skyrockets in 2020

Los Angeles: On June 3, 2020, Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti has said he would cut as much as $150 million from the Los Angeles Police Department's budget,[26] a reversal of his planned increase of $120 million.[27] Garcetti announced the funds would be redirected to community initiatives.

Also Los Angeles: 2020 was a deadly one for L.A., with most killings in years

New York: On June 12, Cuomo also signed an executive order mandating that all police departments get local government approval for a reform plan by April 1, 2021, in order to continue to be eligible for state funding.[ On June 30, the City Council passed a budget which removes $1 billion from the NYPD. It cancels plans to hire 1,160 new police and transfers responsibility to monitor vending, homeless populations, and schools to other entities.

Also New York: New York City Homicides and Shootings Rose Dramatically in 2020
 
WokeandBroke said:
I'm uncomfortable with violent crime reversing decades-long downward trends and hitting 25 year highs across the country. I'm not sure the police reforms are going so well. You guys don't seem to have any questions.
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Can I ask for your solutions? As I recall where you left off a couple administrations ago, it came down to "two parent households."
 
lol all three examples he just posted are reforms to be implemented after the reported rises in murder rates. AT THE TOP OF HIS GAME FOLKS.
 
ConnorEl said:
As far as I know, there ain’t many (1-3?) abolitionists hereabouts.
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Liquid Karma said:
Right, and nobody takes them seriously.
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JuiceCrewAllStar said:
the idea that there is homogeneity of thought here is just absurd -- you have your LKs and biffs who think abolition is the dumbest thing they've ever heard, your chrisL reform cheerleaders, you mhb abolitionist true believers, your abolition-curious, police-skeptics, and so on

it's true that we don't have many true facists outside the sailors and brads, but they don't even take themselves seriously
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trying to avoid this place because the conversation devolves really quickly and i genuinely think most are here just to kill time instead of to learn/consider

but I agree with Juice here and I've already written at length about why treating abolition as a monolith is a bad idea/serves a rhetorical function to legitimize the status quo

not sure which camp I fall into or why that's particularly important beyond trying to score points before the discussion can be had
 
TownieDeac said:
lol all three examples he just posted are reforms to be implemented after the reported rises in murder rates. AT THE TOP OF HIS GAME FOLKS.
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All three departments cut staff in 2020.

“There is a means of trying to minimize the impact of 350 fewer people, but there are 350 fewer people,” he told the commission.

Los Angeles slashed its police budget by $150 million last summer, eliminating about 200 officer positions and redirecting funds to programs for communities of color. Murders and shootings spiked in the second half of 2020 and have remained elevated through the start of 2021.

If you can't figure out that less policemen in real time is a real-time cut, I don't know how to help you. You guys care about this problem, right?
 
WokeandBroke said:
All three departments cut staff in 2020.

“There is a means of trying to minimize the impact of 350 fewer people, but there are 350 fewer people,” he told the commission.

Los Angeles slashed its police budget by $150 million last summer, eliminating about 200 officer positions and redirecting funds to programs for communities of color. Murders and shootings spiked in the second half of 2020 and have remained elevated through the start of 2021.

If you can't figure out that less policemen in real time is a real-time cut, I don't know how to help you. You guys care about this problem, right?
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I care about this. The article you linked is interesting. It indicates that violent crime/murders increased in cities that cut police funding and cities that did not cut police funding, so it seems unlikely that the increases in violent crime are because of changes in policing policy and funding.
 
 
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