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F is for Fascism (Ferguson MO)

If you watch the video, you'll see that the encounter was at the city's performing arts center and there is literally nothing around that could be used as a flotation device. There's a boat rental place a mile away but it's 5 AM. They told him he's not allowed to stim in the lake, so he jumps in and starts swimming about 20 yards with his arms and then swims another 20 yards or so. And he's swimming towards the dam, which presumably has turbines.
 
BiffTannen said:
I tend to disagree with the first part of that assessment. Best bet would have been to find a nearby boat and find something there, which probably would have required breaking a lock someplace, and there's no telling how far away that might be. Also, it was 5 AM so it's not like there were a lot of people around to help or offer their own equipment.

Also, I don't know what anyone else's experience is, but mine is that in an area where homeless people hang out, everything that isn't welded or cemented to something else is going to get stolen.
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I really don't know why I looked in to this, but there is a kayak and paddle boat rental place <.5 down the pedestrian path along the river from where this guy drowned. They undoubtedly have a life jacket and a or a life ring buoy there. A little effort might have saved this guys life. A couple of boy scouts could have had this guy safely ashore and on his way to jail.
 
birdman said:
I really don't know why I looked in to this, but there is a kayak and paddle boat rental place <.5 down the pedestrian path along the river from where this guy drowned. They undoubtedly have a life jacket and a or a life ring buoy there. A little effort might have saved this guys life. A couple of boy scouts could have had this guy safely ashore and on his way to jail.
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So you think they just leave all that stuff unlocked all night ? No chains ? Nothing ?
 
BiffTannen said:
If you watch the video, you'll see that the encounter was at the city's performing arts center and there is literally nothing around that could be used as a flotation device. There's a boat rental place a mile away but it's 5 AM. They told him he's not allowed to stim in the lake, so he jumps in and starts swimming about 20 yards with his arms and then swims another 20 yards or so. And he's swimming towards the dam, which presumably has turbines.
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I agree with most of this except that the boat rental place and the life ring therein likely could have been accessed by hopping a fence. The guy definitely made some bad choices leading up to his demise.

I think what I object to here is the cops' totally blasé attitude about it. This wasn't aggressive fascism, more like indifference and callousness.
 
BiffTannen said:
So you think they just leave all that stuff unlocked all night ? No chains ? Nothing ?
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I don't think they chain up their life ring. I also don't see why a first responder would just assume there was no life saving equipment anywhere in a public water front park without trying.
 
birdman said:
I don't think they chain up their life ring. I also don't see why a first responder would just assume there was no life saving equipment anywhere in a public water front park without trying.
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There is a metal ramp with a metal gate on it that prevents you from accessing that dock. Best case scenario is it takes 10-15 minutes to break in over there and come back with a life jacket or kayak.

tempe-boat-rentals.jpg


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BiffTannen said:
There is a metal ramp with a metal gate on it that prevents you from accessing that dock. Best case scenario is it takes 10-15 minutes to break in over there and come back with a life jacket or kayak.

tempe-boat-rentals.jpg
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There is a life ring right there. The cop could just climb the fence and grab it. I guess I just would like to know that cops would try to be helpful even if it’s hard.
 
Again, we're talking 10-15 minutes. They guy was already dead.

5 minutes ago the guy was trying to run away.
 
BiffTannen said:
Again, we're talking 10-15 minutes. They guy was already dead.

5 minutes ago the guy was trying to run away.
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I’d rather have the cop come back 5 minutes too late out of breath with a life ring in his hands than stand there and watch as a guy drowns saying “I told you not to go swimming.” That’s just me I guess.
 
birdman said:
I don't think they chain up their life ring. I also don't see why a first responder would just assume there was no life saving equipment anywhere in a public water front park without trying.
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Cops aren’t real first responders. They usually don’t show up until after something happens and there is little they can do except call real first responders. And if they are the first to respond, they have no duty to actually do anything to help.
 
BiffTannen said:
It is not ridiculous at all. Go to your nearest river or manmade lake and tell me how many flotation devices you see lying around with ropes attached to them.

Why is anyone acting like patrolling a body of water and responding to emergencies thereon is akin to walking the beat on land ?
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Train the fucking cops and put a life jacket in the car of any cop that patrols areas near waterways. It's not hard, and I'm surprised that's not already happening. If the alternative is just let them drown, then it is absolutely ridiculous it's not happening.

And their indifference and failure to get help is completely disgusting.
 
birdman said:
There is a life ring right there. The cop could just climb the fence and grab it. I guess I just would like to know that cops would try to be helpful even if it’s hard.
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Cops are trained to never climb fences because they might tear their uniform.
 
Upon further reflection, biff and fatty are correct. Fuck that guy. He deserved to die. Nothing the police could have done.
 
Piece of advice to you fucking morons: if you create a public disturbance at 5 AM on public property, and don’t know how to swim don’t try to escape from the cops by jumping in a river, next to a dam, and expect them to risk their lives to come get your stupid ass, as lifeguarding for idiots is not part of the job. Hopefully this will serve as a lesson to some people to take some personal responsibility for their own actions.

Also, if you attack the Capitol building and get shot in the face, don’t blame the cops for your own stupid ass actions either.
 
Shooshmoo said:
Why wouldn't it be? It sure as hell should be. If this was a first time drunk 18 year old white girl who fell into that lake, it would be.
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I am really perplexed by anyone's resistance to the idea that these cops could have at least made a little effort to help this guy who made a series of bad decisions. High probability that nothing they could have done would have helped, but, it's a certainty that doing nothing didn't help at all. It's a pretty bleak societal view that we have no responsibility, as humans living in a society, to try and help people obviously struggling against death because it is not specifically in our job description. Also, it is highly likely that it's not in the job description because the guy was homeless and these cops decided he wasn't worth the risk or the effort.
 
I hate that the guy was killed…but someone described by his family as a depressed, mentally ill, suicidal hothead…going “by there f***** up”…trying to break into vehicles, a school…tussling with officers, trying to forcibly enter a police car…

I’ll reserve judgment for now.
 
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