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Fire Manning, Hire Loyola Coach

I remember defending Clawson in years 1 and 2 when people were trashing him, because it was pretty obvious to me he was building a program the way he had done at multiple schools before Wake. This feels completely and totally different. I did not expect this year's team to be as good as last season, because Collins was the fucking man. But I do expect us to beat Georgia Southern, Liberty, and Drake. I expect something to change when the losses pile up. And I expect accountability. What we saw this season was unacceptable, and debate all you want, we are paying Manning millions of dollars. It's complete bullshit he gets to collect millions more after last season.
 
Dude got an extension too.
 
RChildress107 said:
And that y’all are idiots for wanting to bail on a coach that has just assembled the most talented team we’ve had since Dino before he coaches said team so that the very guy who destroyed our program can hire another coach.
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Look, I am on Manning Island with you, but people aren't idiots for wanting Manning gone. It's a tough argument that he didn't underperform reasonable expectations in two of the last three years. You've basically admitted that he isn't the guy long-term.

And, yes, Porter Moser would absolutely come here. In the 11 years he spent as head coach at Loyola and Illinois State, this year is his only winning conference record. He would surely jump at any chance to quadruple his salary. Frankly, this is the reason we shouldn't make a change because Wellman would absolutely hire the guy with one year of success at a private school in a mid-major conference. That's what he did with Manning and [name redacted] (well, obviously Air Force isn't a private school but not a huge public with low academic standards either).
 
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PhDeac said:
The coach at Loyola-Chicago doesn’t have to come to Wake to contend for a national championship.

We can’t just expect mid major coaches to line up for a job at Wake.
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Can we stop with this LOWF bullshit? Porter Moser would come here. Manning makes over $1.8M per year. Loyola is not capable of paying that, and blue chip programs aren't going to be beating down his door because of one good season. Right now Porter makes $420k per year. The highest paid MVC coach makes $900k (Ben Jacobson at Northern Iowa).

Wake Forest does not have to hire a low major coach off of a one or two year run. ACC programs do not do that. None of them do. Clemson hired Brad Brownell after 4 years and a 0.675 record at UNCW and 4 years and a 0.651 record at Wright State. BC hired Jim Christian after 6 years and a 0.699 record at Kent State, 4 years and a 0.434 record at TCU, and 2 years and a 0.690 record at Ohio. Those are the only current ACC coaches hired from low majors. Wake is a better job than either of those.

Take Vanderbilt. The two programs have similar challenges in terms of academics and resources, but Wake has more basketball history and a greater commitment across sports. Nevertheless, they hired Bryce Drew after 5 years and a 0.717 record at Valpo. They finished 138th, 65th, 163rd, 64th, and 42nd in Kenpom. That's the kind of low-major candidate we should being looking for.
 
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I LOVE the run by Loyola! But, they won 3 NCAA games by a total of 4 points. It took a last second shot to beat Miami or none of us would even know who Porter is or was. The knee jerk reactions need to be placed on pause or you are as bad as Wellman in getting anyone who would say, "yes" to Wake. I want to give Manning one more year and then if he fails get a coach w/a better resume. Than the flavor of the day or a mid-major semi-successful track record (Miller, etc.)
 
Our board has turned into a bitchy, bickering shit storm...consistant, sustainable, predictable losing does that to a fan base. We can shit all over Key since he's leaving and shit all over the mid majors for one year wonders all we want.

The fact remains that it was so much fun watching Loyola celebrating an effing trip to the Final Four last night...I'd gladly take one fluke run to the Final Four; their team would absolutely kick our ass. Its also nice to see a K State team who easily beat our best team in 8 years away last year make it to the Elite 8 this year.

We're in basketball hell and some of you think we're one pretty good (not elite) recruiting class from upper half of the conference finishes and Sweet 16's. Our best team in 8 year's could only manage a 10th place finish and they followed up the UL win with a beat down in the ACC Tournament as well as the NCAA play in game. I'm Manning out but if he would have won first round ACC and play in NCAA I actually mighty feel a little different.

Every time DM's teams have an opportunity for a signature win or to do something to get over the hump we always fail.
 
Shake said:
Our board has turned into a bitchy, bickering shit storm...consistant, sustainable, predictable losing does that to a fan base. We can shit all over Key since he's leaving and shit all over the mid majors for one year wonders all we want.

The fact remains that it was so much fun watching Loyola celebrating an effing trip to the Final Four last night...I'd gladly take one fluke run to the Final Four; their team would absolutely kick our ass. Its also nice to see a K State team who easily beat our best team in 8 years away last year make it to the Elite 8 this year.

We're in basketball hell and some of you think we're one pretty good (not elite) recruiting class from upper half of the conference finishes and Sweet 16's. Our best team in 8 year's could only manage a 10th place finish and they followed up the UL win with a beat down in the ACC Tournament as well as the NCAA play in game. I'm Manning out but if he would have won first round ACC and play in NCAA I actually mighty feel a little different.

Every time DM's teams have an opportunity for a signature win or to do something to get over the hump we always fail.
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Literally no one thinks this.
 
I would love to see Loyola win the whole damn thing! But, you would take the last 20 years of their "success" for a one year fluke run at NCAA Final 4?? They are a historically losing team in a small conference - they do not compete on a weekly basis against ACC talent save 1 or 2 games a year (not withstanding this year). Sorry, I would rather have Skip and Odom' success over a long haul than a one year run. Jump on the Loyola bandwagon next year and tell me how much fun it is.

No one thinks we are one year away from being competitive for the next 10 years in the ACC w/this recruiting class. Our hope is that they have success early in the season and get off to a good start and surprise people like (Hmmm, a Loyola maybe? - that's a joke) an NC State team. Hopefully, Manning and staff can build on that success w/a good class in '19 & '20.

Btw/ here is Loyola's track record in a mid-major for last 20 years:

1998–99 Larry Farmer 9–18 7–7 4th
1999-00 Larry Farmer 14–14 4–10 8th
2000–01 Larry Farmer 7–21 2–12 8th
2001–02 Larry Farmer 17–13 9–7 T–4th
2002–03 Larry Farmer 15–16 9–7 T–4th
2003–04 Larry Farmer 9–20 4–12 T–7th
Larry Farmer: 71–102 (.410) 35–55 (.389)
Jim Whitesell (Horizon League) (2004–2011)
2004–2005 Jim Whitesell 13–17 8–8 T-4th
2005–2006 Jim Whitesell 19–11 8–8 T-3rd
2006–2007 Jim Whitesell 21–11 10–6 3rd
2007–2008 Jim Whitesell 12–19 6–12 7th
2008–2009 Jim Whitesell 14–18 6–12 8th
2009–2010 Jim Whitesell 14–16 5–13 8th
2010–2011 Jim Whitesell 16–15 7–11 8th
Jim Whitesell: 109–107 (.505) 50–70 (.417)
Porter Moser (Horizon League) (2011–2013)
2011–2012 Porter Moser 7–23 1–17 10th
2012–2013 Porter Moser 15–16 5–11 7th
Porter Moser (Missouri Valley Conference) (2013–present)
2013–2014 Porter Moser 10–22 4–14 10th
2014–2015 Porter Moser 24–13 8–10 6th CBI Champions
2015–2016 Porter Moser 15–17 7–11 8th
2016–2017 Porter Moser 18–14 8–10 5th
2017–2018 Porter Moser 32–5 15-3 1st
 
Porter moser’s First 4 years at Loyola are very similar to Manning’s
 
Let's keep in mind the context - ACC vs. MVC

Porter Moser has also been at the helm for 7 years w/his highest finish 5th until this season. I am very happy for him and his team this year. IMO, he is not ready for the ACC - very few coaches are and Manning has not made that leap as well.
 
I want the National Champion Ferris State coach and his BEARD.

ferris-state-beard-coach-ftr_1ardc3slm953x1sfck6xhsjysn.jpg
 
i believe we've reached peak insanity. our poor fan base.
i think i saw two posters arguing over a position they both agreed on. haha


no one wants wellman to hire another coach. no one thinks manning is the answer.
 
Skip died almost 11 years ago. If you’re going to include Odom and Skip in the analysis, you may as well include Loyola’s 1963 championship and our only Final Four.
 
WakeForest Fan said:
i believe we've reached peak insanity. our poor fan base.
i think i saw two posters arguing over a position they both agreed on. haha


no one wants wellman to hire another coach. no one thinks manning is the answer.
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Wellman has made some outstanding coaching hires, just not in basketball. He couldn’t swing and miss again. Could he?
 
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