• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

First Charges Filed in Mueller Investigation

sailordeac said:
he said he got his information from Russian sources
Click to expand...

Not the Russian government. He was MI-6's #1 person in Russia for over a decade. He has developed sources who know what it going on.

Hell, the CIA and DOD used his information on Russia many times. He was a superstar.
 
Newenglanddeac said:
I disagree with the premise of this article but it's a plausible scenario based on fact.


Click to expand...

This is where I stand on all of this. Trump has proven himself utterly incompetent at almost every possible level. If he and his team colluded with the Russians they would have already been caught by now, he is not smart enough to cover up his tracks.

It is weird to me that people think he is a total idiot, but is still somehow masterminding a great Russian collusion plan in order to be the leader of the free world.
 
WakeandBake said:
Oh now he got his info from important Russians. I thought his dossier was meaningless because he never went to Russia and relied on second-hand accounts from operatives in the field lol

you guys are precious
Click to expand...

You are too cute. It’s all coming out in the Judicial system. Follow the UK courts.

Nobody claimed his Russian sources were worth a damn - they were of the same ham handed and hacking variety as his own
 
WFcatamount22 said:
This is where I stand on all of this. Trump has proven himself utterly incompetent at almost every possible level. If he and his team colluded with the Russians they would have already been caught by now, he is not smart enough to cover up his tracks.

It is weird to me that people think he is a total idiot, but is still somehow masterminding a great Russian collusion plan in order to be the leader of the free world.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure anyone is suggesting the masterminding of any Russian collusion plan is taking place in America. If anything, the prevailing theory seems to be that the Ruskies are the masterminds.
 
He doesn't have to be the one orchestrating the collusion. He's more afraid of being shown to be an absolute idiot and stooge. Manafort was a long-time employee of Putin. This is not in dispute.

Trump is also breaking oath of office by not protecting us from Russia.
 
WFcatamount22 said:
This is where I stand on all of this. Trump has proven himself utterly incompetent at almost every possible level. If he and his team colluded with the Russians they would have already been caught by now, he is not smart enough to cover up his tracks.

It is weird to me that people think he is a total idiot, but is still somehow masterminding a great Russian collusion plan in order to be the leader of the free world.
Click to expand...

Truly unique,isn’t it? Hahaa

First they said his campaign was Keystone Cops and then they accuse it as being Special Ops.

Dems have utterly lost all moorings..
 
Ph, you believe that the Russians tried to help Trump. But the evidence shows that the Russians in meddling did all kinds of contradictory things, some of which fits your theory and some of which does not. The best explanation based on what we now know is that the Russian meddling was to create confusion, and at least as far as you are concerned, it worked.
 
Trump is like the jockey or owner in a fixed race. They think they did everything right and won the race because of their brilliance. The reality is races aren't fixed by the people who win. They are fixed to make sure certain horses lose.

Manafort was Putin's fixer. Carter worked for Russia. But they didn't do anything...
 
It just seems to me that regardless of where you fall in all this. If Trump admits that Russia fucked with the election, and he has admitted that at least on Twitter. Why is he against imposing the sanctions that Congress actually, miraculously, agreed on? That that question that I would love to hear an answer from sailor (haha) or ol' mofuggin lectro.
 
The Courts will handle it all —

“While Mr. Steele stated matter-of-factly in his dossier that collusion between Mr. Trump and the Russian government took place, he called it only “possible” months later in court filings. While he confidently referred to “trusted” sources inside the Kremlin, in court he referred to the dossier’s “limited intelligence.” […]

In court filings this year, Mr. Steele doesn’t sound as confident as his dossier.”

Washington Times
 
sailordeac said:
Ph, you believe that the Russians tried to help Trump. But the evidence shows that the Russians in meddling did all kinds of contradictory things, some of which fits your theory and some of which does not. The best explanation based on what we now know is that the Russian meddling was to create confusion, and at least as far as you are concerned, it worked.
Click to expand...

Electing Trump is consistent with creating confusion and chaos.
This is where I stand on all of this. Trump has proven himself utterly incompetent at almost every possible level. If he and his team colluded with the Russians they would have already been caught by now, he is not smart enough to cover up his tracks.

It is weird to me that people think he is a total idiot, but is still somehow masterminding a great Russian collusion plan in order to be the leader of the free world.
Click to expand...

My impression is that Trump's entire presidency is a publicity stunt gone horribly wrong. One the actual masterminds (Manafort, et al) took over, he no longer had an exit strategy. Most of the reason they are almost caught now are Trump (and family's) fuck-ups.
 
WFcatamount22 said:
This is where I stand on all of this. Trump has proven himself utterly incompetent at almost every possible level. If he and his team colluded with the Russians they would have already been caught by now, he is not smart enough to cover up his tracks.

It is weird to me that people think he is a total idiot, but is still somehow masterminding a great Russian collusion plan in order to be the leader of the free world.
Click to expand...

I don't think he is a mastermind at all. I think opportunities have been presented to Trump by his inner circle of corrupt actors, they have been dumbed-down into explanations that Trump can consume, and he has gone along with them to make money and to be a 'cool guy with some shit going on' (i mean that), and that he has subsequently lied about these opportunities to cover them up because he knows that they are illegal.

It doesn't take a mastermind to accept a deal on a piece of property that allows the buyer to launder money, and when your son or Manafort or whomever explains your cut of the money on the illegal deal, you say "ok"

Unfortunately for Trump, the Kremlin and it's wealthy oligarch pals are in on the money laundering, so they can compromise Trump. So naturally, they wanted him in the White House so they could manipulate him and America. Its not hard to understand

What is hard to understand is all the gyrations you defenders of Trump have to go through to make your cockamamie theories work out.
 
Last edited:
sailordeac said:
Ph, you believe that the Russians tried to help Trump. But the evidence shows that the Russians in meddling did all kinds of contradictory things, some of which fits your theory and some of which does not. The best explanation based on what we now know is that the Russian meddling was to create confusion, and at least as far as you are concerned, it worked.
Click to expand...

Which Russians?
 
I love how Trump apologists are all now self appointed experts on Russian espionage and disinformation. I'm old enough to remember when every Trump rube said Russian election interference was a bullshit story made up by Democrats to explain away the 2016 loss.
 
RJKarl said:
Trump is like the jockey or owner in a fixed race. They think they did everything right and won the race because of their brilliance. The reality is races aren't fixed by the people who win. They are fixed to make sure certain horses lose.

Manafort was Putin's fixer. Carter worked for Russia. But they didn't do anything...
Click to expand...

Hahahahaha...Carter Page. That’s rich. I wonder if he received his $11 Billion (19%) stake — poor Carter,he missed out his payday — is there a more absurd claim in Steele’s dossier?

In fact, Roseneft and Sechin did make a deal, with Glencore in 2013 for the 19.5 % stake.

Interesting side note: Glencore’s founder was a guy named Marc Rich
 
Newenglanddeac said:
I love how Trump apologists are all now self appointed experts on Russian espionage and disinformation. I'm old enough to remember when every Trump rube said Russian election interference was a bullshit story made up by Democrats to explain away the 2016 loss.
Click to expand...

Nobody has said anything of the sort. In fact,it was Obama who blew off Mittens when Romney brought the threat up in a 2012 debate. Get it together.
 
Lectro said:
Nobody has said anything of the sort. In fact,it was Obama who blew off Mittens when Romney brought the threat up in a 2012 debate. Get it together.
Click to expand...

You serious? I would put the over/under on the number of times someone has posted "the Russia story is a hoax made by the Democrats" (or some form of this) since late 2016 in the hundreds if not low thousands.
 
Last edited:
Deacfreak07 said:
It just seems to me that regardless of where you fall in all this. If Trump admits that Russia fucked with the election, and he has admitted that at least on Twitter. Why is he against imposing the sanctions that Congress actually, miraculously, agreed on? That that question that I would love to hear an answer from sailor (haha) or ol' mofuggin lectro.
Click to expand...

I don't know why he has not imposed the sanctions. On the other hand, Russia is an important country. Neither the situation in Ukraine, nor in the Middle East, nor perhaps in North Korea, can be improved without Russian cooperation. Maybe there is some sense to not allowing the relationship between the two countries to become further estranged.

Russia has been meddling in other countries' domestic politics big time for a long time, at least since the 19th century. No sanctions will end that. It is our job to prevent the meddling from having much of an effect. Rosenstein reported that it had not. Obama claimed that Russian meddling was not and could not be a factor in our elections. Based on what we now know, claims to the contrary are not convincing. In the end, it is our job to prevent Russian meddling from being effective.

The US is in a very poor position to object to other countries meddling in the US because we have a long record of meddling in the domestic politics of others. Furthermore, other countries constantly meddle in our politics through lobbying and foreign campaign money. Other people hack us and we also hack them. Everyone needs to defend themselves and complaining will do little good. The anti-Trumpian narrowly partisan approach to the problem of foreign meddling and hacking of the US is counterproductive.
 
You couldn't invent a better stooge for Putin's attempt to create madness in the United States than Trump. As long as you say nice things about him and protect him, he will love you and do anything you ask him to do.
 
sailordeac said:
I don't know why he has not imposed the sanctions. On the other hand, Russia is an important country. Neither the situation in Ukraine, nor in the Middle East, nor perhaps in North Korea, can be improved without Russian cooperation. Maybe there is some sense to not allowing the relationship between the two countries to become further estranged.

Russia has been meddling in other countries domestic politics big time for a long time, at least since the 19th century. No sanctions will end that. It is our job to prevent the meddling from having much of an effect. Rosenstein reported that it had not. Obama claimed that Russian meddling was not and could not be a factor in our elections. Based on what we now know, claims to the contrary are not convincing. In the end, it is our job to prevent Russian meddling from being effective.

The US is in a very poor position to object to other countries meddling in the US because we have a long record of meddling in the domestic politics of others. Furthermore, other countries constantly meddle in our politics through lobbying and foreign campaign money. Other people hack us and we also hack them. Everyone needs to defend themselves and complaining will do little good. The anti-Trumpian narrowly partisan approach to the problem of foreign meddling and hacking of the US is counterproductive.
Click to expand...

So it doesn't bother you in the slightest that he's not imposing the sanctions? When was the last time anything of substance received a vote of 98-2 in the Senate or 419-3 in the House. It seems he's going against the will of the people here. You don't really seem to care why, and I find that more than a little odd.

I find this phenomenon especially odd within the context of a political movement that constantly decried how Obama made us look weak around the world.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top