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Get well wishes for #99 for NC State

Turd Ferguson said:
Five yard penalty every time a defensive injury prevents the offense from lining up. Offense has to be moving to line up immediately after play. Wouldn't be enforced on clock stopping plays (incomplete passes, out of bounds, etc.). Each team gets 5 30-second time outs per half (get rid of all the TV bs every time out), and time outs can be used to avoid the defensive penalty.

Defensive penalties (real or fake) take away a HUGE advantage to the offense trying to push up tempo. No reason to penalize the offense because the defense gets hurt and would negate all the faking. It's basically treating like you used to see the big fat lineman that couldn't get back on sides before the snap after a big completion.

Soccer, baseball, basketball, literally no other sport stops the offense immediately for an injury. It is too unfair and (as we now see when we play duke and state) leads to 20 fake injuries a game. They wouldn't do it if it wasn't a HUGE advantage. If you think about it five yards is not unreasonable at all. Otherwise may as well just say the QB can't say hike until the defense says they're all set up and ready to go.
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You're going to penalize the defense 5 yards because one of its players has a broken leg ?
 
That happens literally once out of a hundred injury timeouts. But sure why not. You don’t stop running bases because the centerfielder breaks his leg. You don’t stop a fast break with five guys lying around under the opposite basket with broken legs. Obviously in football you can’t play on. So do something to offset the disadvantage to the offense. Every other sport does it. It’s not so much penalizing the injury as keeping defensive injuries from hurting the offense.

And by the way that’s exactly what they do to offense when the injury is a the end of the game except it’s time not yards. Which can be even worse.

My point is football is the only sport that does this and it just hasn’t been accounted for in the rules as the game has changed. Whether it’s a real or fake injury shouldn’t really matter.
 
BiffTannen said:
You're going to penalize the defense 5 yards because one of its players has a broken leg ?
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Yeah, I don't think you can really do that, it's football and guys get injured. I think it has to be a situation where one player is going down multiple times. Of course I realize that just means teams can have different guys doing it, but at least it would stop having to see one guy (#99 for State) laying on his ass 5 or 6 times like he's hurt only to be back in a couple of plays later.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Yeah, I don't think you can really do that, it's football and guys get injured. I think it has to be a situation where one player is going down multiple times. Of course I realize that just means teams can have different guys doing it, but at least it would stop having to see one guy (#99 for State) laying on his ass 5 or 6 times like he's hurt only to be back in a couple of plays later.
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I'm not annoyed seeing the same guy lay down. I'm annoyed that the defense is taking away what should be advantages to our offense. And it is only going to get worse. I don't imagine teams have traditionally spent a ton of time game planning for us. I imagine that may change if we stay relevant. And priority number 1 is slowing down our offense.

Besides that, it is just interesting that football is the only sport that takes away a potentially huge advantage to the offense every time a defender goes down. There are ways around it. You can use your timeouts to give your defense a rest. That used to happen all the time. Now someone just takes a dive. And I still don't understand why it's ok to punish the offense for end of game injuries but unthinkable to punish the defense. Especially when the defense gains advantages throughout the entire game.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
I'm not annoyed seeing the same guy lay down. I'm annoyed that the defense is taking away what should be advantages to our offense. And it is only going to get worse. I don't imagine teams have traditionally spent a ton of time game planning for us. I imagine that may change if we stay relevant. And priority number 1 is slowing down our offense.

Besides that, it is just interesting that football is the only sport that takes away a potentially huge advantage to the offense every time a defender goes down. There are ways around it. You can use your timeouts to give your defense a rest. That used to happen all the time. Now someone just takes a dive. And I still don't understand why it's ok to punish the offense for end of game injuries but unthinkable to punish the defense. Especially when the defense gains advantages throughout the entire game.
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What's interesting is it really didn't seem to work for State. I mean we'd be moving down the field, a defender would take a fall and get a TV timeout and we pretty much picked right up where we left off.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
What's interesting is it really didn't seem to work for State. I mean we'd be moving down the field, a defender would take a fall and get a TV timeout and we pretty much picked right up where we left off.
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We'd never know. Taking a dive allows you to rest your D, substitute, conference, and get a game plan together for the next play. Our offense has the potential to jump on the line and burn somebody deep, or break a huge run on a gassed defense. We didn't do as much of that against state as we usually do. (Yeah we made plenty of mistakes too.)

If you think about it, it isn't crazy. End of game offense has to decide if they want to take a timeout or a runoff on an injury...Defense gets a similar choice. Increase number of timeouts (make them shorter) and force teams to actually use them during the game rather than hoard them for a 2 minute drive.

ETA: Plus, it wouldn't be every injury every time. Just times when the clock doesn't stop and the offense is actively rushing to get a play going. Even our offense doesn't do that all the time. And I'm not sure how that's unsporting compared to basketball, where we've actually seen guys standing under the basket with their broken leg dangling at the ankle while the other team is streaking the other way for a 5 on 4 alley oop.
 
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Turd Ferguson said:
We'd never know. Taking a dive allows you to rest your D, substitute, conference, and get a game plan together for the next play. Our offense has the potential to jump on the line and burn somebody deep, or break a huge run on a gassed defense. We didn't do as much of that against state as we usually do. (Yeah we made plenty of mistakes too.)

If you think about it, it isn't crazy. End of game offense has to decide if they want to take a timeout or a runoff on an injury...Defense gets a similar choice. Increase number of timeouts (make them shorter) and force teams to actually use them during the game rather than hoard them for a 2 minute drive.
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You could give a team a number of injury timeouts and once they burn through those, they have to take their normal timeouts for injuries and then if they're out, it's a penalty. We all know the problem with "shorter" timeouts, TV will not allow it and they will take more TV timeouts as a result and 4 hour games will become the norm.
 
not being able to play the rest of the series (unless you call a timeout) seems like a perfect, elegant solution.
 
IAppreciateIt said:
not being able to play the rest of the series (unless you call a timeout) seems like a perfect, elegant solution.
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Series of 4 downs or series while the team has the ball? if the former I would disagree as you would have players dropping every time before a big 3rd down to give their team a rest and game plan and player essentially only misses one play as 4th down is likely meaningless. I say they sit out the whole series the other team has the ball as well as the following total series while team has the ball until score/punt/turnover. Got to make it sting a little.
 
saltydeac said:
Series of 4 downs or series while the team has the ball? if the former I would disagree as you would have players dropping every time before a big 3rd down to give their team a rest and game plan and player essentially only misses one play as 4th down is likely meaningless. I say they sit out the whole series the other team has the ball as well as the following total series while team has the ball until score/punt/turnover. Got to make it sting a little.
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Possession change.
 
I am laughing picturing a guy with a broken leg log rolling towards the sideline trying to avoid a penalty.
 
IAppreciateIt said:
not being able to play the rest of the series (unless you call a timeout) seems like a perfect, elegant solution.
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They'll just run a scrub in to fake it if needed. I think not being able to huddle with coaches or come to the sideline is a promising start.
 
TheAbster said:
They'll just run a scrub in to fake it if needed. I think not being able to huddle with coaches or come to the sideline is a promising start.
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That wouldn't be a bad start. In the UFC, if the fight gets stopped for an injury (typically getting kicked in the nuts), the uninjured fighter has to go to a neutral corner and can't be coached by corner during the timeout.
 
saltydeac said:
Series of 4 downs or series while the team has the ball? if the former I would disagree as you would have players dropping every time before a big 3rd down to give their team a rest and game plan and player essentially only misses one play as 4th down is likely meaningless. I say they sit out the whole series the other team has the ball as well as the following total series while team has the ball until score/punt/turnover. Got to make it sting a little.
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We already have players doing that. You are right this wouldn't fix it.

PhDeac said:
I'd go for possession change or clock stoppage on a player out of bounds or incomplete pass.
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See above. Has to be possession change at minimum.

But still doesn't address the problem. If you are two/three deep at every position it is totally worth to sit an already totally gassed player for the rest of a drive you are getting eaten up on to rest your already gassed defense to prep for a big down. Just two platoon it and take a few rests.

Sitting a player is a step in the right direction but doesn't really address the issue. Used to be when an offense was in hurry up (normally just end of game) you saw all the things everyone is joking about. Players limping off the field, flags flying, time outs being burned. Now guys just lie down. There's no way to separate legitimate from fake injuries and I'm just now sure why it matters anyway. It shouldn't.
 
TheAbster said:
They'll just run a scrub in to fake it if needed. I think not being able to huddle with coaches or come to the sideline is a promising start.
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But, at least that means they have to risk defending a play with a scrub. See the scrub. Beat the scrub.
 
TheAbster said:
They'll just run a scrub in to fake it if needed. I think not being able to huddle with coaches or come to the sideline is a promising start.
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Tough to enforce. I guess you could say no subs except for the "injured" player. You'll have three or four guys cramping just to get the third down package on the field. Now you have four guys to make sure sit a series. Do we give them water? It's not really the point. You don't have to have a huddle to set up the defense, that doesn't solve anything. And is totally worth it to rest, water, and reset a struggling defense.
 
Tobacco Road said:
But, at least that means they have to risk defending a play with a scrub. See the scrub. Beat the scrub.
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Yes. But not being able to huddle cuts out 50% of the problem. They can still stop the clock. Baby steps.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
But still doesn't address the problem. If you are two/three deep at every position it is totally worth to sit an already totally gassed player for the rest of a drive you are getting eaten up on to rest your already gassed defense to prep for a big down. Just two platoon it and take a few rests.
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If they had to sit for the entire possession, I could see some players being less willing to go along with it.
 
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