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historically bad day for the Big Four?

childressfor3 said:
Yall can say what you want, but hes dead right on this one. Ive been saying this for about 6 years now. Ive come to grips as someone who has followed wake hoops college bball and the ACC as closely as anyone I know. Its just the thruth.
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Yep. The ACC is mediocre and college basketball is losing the interest of many. I blame Stern and the NBA policy that does not allow entry directly after high school.
 
You mean the policy that people used to say was hurting college basketball?
 
Of course this week 'experts' were scratching their heads over dook dropping to #16. They'll hang on to the top 25. I think Pitt will crack it. So it's possible the ACC will have 3-4 teams (UVA?) in the top 25 with two of them one year removed from the Big East. If we didn't pull in Syracuse the ACC might be historically bad.
 
bobknightfan said:
College basketball everywhere is just gradually getting worse and worse and worse. The ACC is just a shell of what it once was. Even Duke & Carolina aren't really very good anymore. You'd have to be blind not to see it. You would also have to be blind not to see the main reason for it.....early entries to the NBA. Teams don't have time to develop into a cohesive unit because they are constantly having to replace key players on the team. And in many cases, players are more interested in how they are presenting themselves for a future in the NBA than in how they can best help their team now. Jeff Teague was a perfect example of that. He could play PG or SG....but Ish could only play PG. Our strongest team on the floor would have had both of them, but Teague knew his future in the NBA would have to be at PG....so when Dino tried to move him to SG to help the team, Teague just stood around and sulked.
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You should start watching the NBA. That's by far where the best basketball is.
 
Top 10 Conferences according to KenPom:

1 Big Ten Conference
2 Big 12 Conference
3 Big East Conference
4 Atlantic Coast Conference
5 Pac 12 Conference
6 Southeastern Conference
7 American Athletic Conference
8 Atlantic 10 Conference
9 West Coast Conference
10 Mountain West Conference
 
According to KenPom (queue the jokes), the ACC has the following top 25 teams:

4. Syracuse
6. Pittsburgh
17. Virginia
22. Duke
24. Florida State
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
Basketball needs to adopt the baseball rule.
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Which would lead to a talent decline that would make college basketball as irrelevant as college baseball.
 
WFMY news here reported the last time the Big Four lost in the same day in the regular season was the 1979-1980 season. Didn't mention anything about double digit losses I don't think
 
PhDeac said:
Early entries are relatively few players compared to the entire landscape. Here is last year's list:
http://www.nba.com/bobcats/early-entry-candidates-2013-nba-draft

46 players. Half were juniors who only had one more year left. Only nine "one and dones".

I doubt that's much different than the last few years. You can't blame this trend on only early entries, especially since early entries were in full force back in the 90s.
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Those statistics can be more than a little misleading. In basketball one key player can often make a world of difference between being a good team or a mediocre or poor one. The fact is, those 23 defections - usually of the best players - to the NBA after only one or two years are hurting college basketball quite a bit. Just look at the product on the court and the lack of competitiveness for many teams on the road.
 
Early entry isn't a new thing. What is the reference point you're using for decline?
 
bobknightfan said:
College basketball everywhere is just gradually getting worse and worse and worse. The ACC is just a shell of what it once was. Even Duke & Carolina aren't really very good anymore. You'd have to be blind not to see it. You would also have to be blind not to see the main reason for it.....early entries to the NBA. Teams don't have time to develop into a cohesive unit because they are constantly having to replace key players on the team. And in many cases, players are more interested in how they are presenting themselves for a future in the NBA than in how they can best help their team now. Jeff Teague was a perfect example of that. He could play PG or SG....but Ish could only play PG. Our strongest team on the floor would have had both of them, but Teague knew his future in the NBA would have to be at PG....so when Dino tried to move him to SG to help the team, Teague just stood around and sulked.
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This is all too true. Teague did tend to go into a shell after he was moved to shooting guard but that's not only on Teague, it's also on Dino and the offense that he ran, where most of the team stood around and watched the point guard dribble. If Teague was supposed to do something other than stand around, Dino didn't teach it to him.
 
PhDeac said:
Early entry isn't a new thing. What is the reference point you're using for decline?
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The decline has been gradual since the beginning of early entry. There are other factors involved in the decline. For eaxample, the increasingly physical play allowed by the refs has made the game less a game of skill, coordination and grace and more a game of strength. The growth in the number of professional opportunities, both in the US and abroad, have gradually weakened college basketball. I too think the baseball rule should be adopted. It would help to protect the stability of college basketball programs, some of which are uncreasingly turning into little more than rent-a-player for a year or two. This is not very good for either the players or the college programs. The players don't get an education, and the programs become increasingly unstable.
 
sailordeac said:
The decline has been gradual since the beginning of early entry. There are other factors involved in the decline. For eaxample, the increasingly physical play allowed by the refs has made the game less a game of skill, coordination and grace and more a game of strength. The growth in the number of professional opportunities, both in the US and abroad, have gradually weakened college basketball. I too think the baseball rule should be adopted. It would help to protect the stability of college basketball programs, some of which are uncreasingly turning into little more than rent-a-player for a year or two. This is not very good for either the players or the college programs. The players don't get an education, and the programs become increasingly unstable.
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The NBA will never go to the baseball rule.
 
I think it is the "forced" one year players that have really hurt. Kids don't have to sort out whether or they are immediate NBA material. So they all go to college for a year, and spend that year getting ready for the NBA. Whether or not they are really ready is another story. Because they think they might be ready after one year of college, the kids work on their "NBA game" which might not be the best for the team as a whole. The team might need a player to play one position, while his NBA position may be different. There are a bunch more kids who do this than actually have the skills that get them a high rating for NBA draft status, but a bunch are trying - one year, two years. Its not just those who actually do it; it is also the mentality that "I'm just here til my game is NBA ready" that has put college BB in decline. It is also why some of the mid majors are making strides. Guys who go there aren't usually in the position to be looking NBA in a year or two.
 
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