I am so sick of this shit I can’t stand it!

[CharlotteDeac1]

Coming from #UndePheated and the other posters on this thread, this is a nice compliment.

If you combine the posters that opposed the billboard or showed optimism around the Devin/Codi class with the ones that proclaimed Wake's program dead for 5+ years and predicted that Manning had no chance of making the tournament last year you'd be out of posters.

Not that I know what "in the tank" means. I was against promoting Dino but understood why it happened. Definitely thought he should be fired but didn't like the [name redacted] hire. The only prediction I remember outright making was that Codi, Cav, Moto, and Devin would make the tournament their senior year, and considering they beat Duke, UNC, and NC State as juniors there's a non-zero chance that could have happened. We'll never know since [name redacted] got fired, which I was also in favor of. My requirements have always been the same - if you don't make the tourney in 4 years or you lose control of the players that represent Wake Forest, you deserve to go outside of very unique circumstances. We went from a guy who'd recruit a crack dealer if he could dunk to a guy who'd sign a haircut if he wore his socks right. Both embarrassed the school, just in opposite ways. I'd guess there aren't all that many posters who have played with, talked to, and continue to talk to players from those years to the extent that I have, and I'll admit it was difficult to listen to the nonsense posted here during our coaching searches when a family member represented a Wake target and I couldn't set the record straight.

I'm in the tank for the players if you want to call it that, and will happily continue to wear the badge of optimist for this board that seems to spend more time discounting last year's success than discussing actual basketball. It's toxic enough around here that I've gotten pretty numb to the absurdity of all of it - Manning goes from 2 ACC wins to 9 and finishes 5th in ACC Coach of the Year voting - and people want him fired the following year after his entire front court jumps early. The posters who predicted little if any improvement last year can sit around patting themselves on the back, taking shots at Wake fans who posted anything positive during the [name redacted] years - I guess for that sweet sense of superiority it gives them - but I'd rather be a fan of our players first and leave the internet trolling to the politics board.

By the way Ph, Ish is about to plow through the $24 Million mark in NBA earnings.

Holy truth bomb. First, awesome post (besides the hyperbole). Second, I feel I have taken on a board persona as an optimist as well (which I am, and a big fan of Manning) - but I'd much rather be that than the crap I see from other people. If someone presents a cogent argument against a decision Manning makes then I'll concede to that point - which I've done multiple times in the past - but I'm not about be a miserable human being like a lot of you here. I am under the firm assumption that the fan base as a whole is much better than it seems it would be on this board, as everyone I meet in person at games are not all "woe is me" like a large number of posters here.

 

[deaclite]

Rather take a look at the whole season then debating each win or loss. Give Manning the responsibility for the poor start since he is in charge. See some positives but the schedule gets brutal pretty soon. Have to win our home games to stay positive about our future prospects under his leadership. No great teams this season so everybody has a chance to get on a roll.

 

[Complacent Deac]

We need a power forward.

This year, next year, anyone not named Swinton.

 

[Fusiondad10]

These whining threads about this year's team are so annoying. As was just said, dissecting each game based on the result is just mindless . When we get to where we have a really good team and don't win as we should, that's fine to whine. But for chrissakes just stop it for now. If you can't see that the loss to BC was about them making shots and our guards not then I don't know what to tell you. This year's team is severely unbalanced as a roster, and our guards are the key to any success. When they play poorly as they did we are gonna lose. Doral is MILES better than he was, Mitchell is slowly growing into a role, and Thompson is serviceable. But they are nothing compared to JC, Dinos, and Arians. Accept it. Frankly if you want to complain about coaching, let's start with whomever coaches our guards on shooting and decision-making.....that's why we lost the other night, and give BC's players some credit for making plays we didn't.

 

[RJKarl]

We need a power forward.

This year, next year, anyone not named Swinton.

I think Sarr is being groomed to be our PF next year.

 

[knowell]

Frankly if you want to complain about coaching, let's start with whomever coaches our guards on shooting and decision-making

So this is not done by the head coach? Interesting.

 

[mebanedeac]

As difficult as it might be to accept, we simply don't have the talent to compete at a high level in the ACC. Add to that the terrible decisions that our guards habitually make and there's not much hope. It's difficult to improve talent in the course of a season; but decision-making is another matter altogether. I get the idea of wanting the guards to play a free spirited type of game...unafraid to make mistakes. However turnovers are a killer unless you have extremely high level scorers who can compensate, which we do not. The guards need to be reigned in a bit and taken off the floor for carelessness with the ball, including stupid shots.

Our coaches seem to think that it is not possible to teach a team to play fast AND to play under control. The thought of playing a disciplined game in which plays are designed to get shots for the best shooters at their most effective places on the court, seems foreign to this staff. The plan seems to be that the first guy that's open shoots. So defenses just give certain players open shots over and over and those players happily shoot and miss over and over. We have certain players who ought not to shoot the ball so much, especially from 3.

 

[Deaconblue]

I think Sarr is being groomed to be our PF next year.

Right now it is looking like a three man rotation of Doral, Thompson and Sarr at the 4-5 spots with some minutes for others (Mitchell) and the occasional dreaded four guard lineup. I too am of the opinion that the four guard lineup should only be used to close out games when free throw shooting and ball handling are paramount. Then I would go with Sarr and four guards.

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

These whining threads about this year's team are so annoying. As was just said, dissecting each game based on the result is just mindless . When we get to where we have a really good team and don't win as we should, that's fine to whine. But for chrissakes just stop it for now. If you can't see that the loss to BC was about them making shots and our guards not then I don't know what to tell you. This year's team is severely unbalanced as a roster, and our guards are the key to any success. When they play poorly as they did we are gonna lose. Doral is MILES better than he was, Mitchell is slowly growing into a role, and Thompson is serviceable. But they are nothing compared to JC, Dinos, and Arians. Accept it. Frankly if you want to complain about coaching, let's start with whomever coaches our guards on shooting and decision-making.....that's why we lost the other night, and give BC's players some credit for making plays we didn't.

Also a very good post. I'll add that we did not have our leading scorer in Keyshawn as well - so compared to last years team we were missing JC, Dinos, Arians, and Keyshawn (by far our most frequent lineup with Crawford running point).

 

[Deacon923]

there are many more where that came from

here's a list of regular season ACC wins since the ACC expanded to 12 teams for the 2005-06 season; this does not include our craptastic ACCT record:

note Maryland's position relative to us; they left the ACC 3 years ago


Duke 149 53 202 0.738
UNC 147 55 202 0.728
Virg 115 87 202 0.569
FSU 112 90 202 0.554
Mia 100 102 202 0.495
Clem 98 104 202 0.485
NCSt 83 119 202 0.411
VAT 81 121 202 0.401
Mary 76 72 148 0.514
BC 70 132 202 0.347
GT 68 134 202 0.337
WF 68 134 202 0.337

 

[PhDeac]

Right now it is looking like a three man rotation of Doral, Thompson and Sarr at the 4-5 spots with some minutes for others (Mitchell) and the occasional dreaded four guard lineup. I too am of the opinion that the four guard lineup should only be used to close out games when free throw shooting and ball handling are paramount. Then I would go with Sarr and four guards.

We really need a PF in next year's class. Moore, Sarr, and Mitchell just isn't enough.

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

We really need a PF in next year's class. Moore, Sarr, and Mitchell just isn't enough.

Speaking of, who has some info on how the staff feels about EJ Montgomery? I'm not getting my hopes up, but one can dream.

 

[WhatUTalkinBout Willis]

This thread is no bueno, so let me bump it to the top right quick.

For real, Manning is doing fine and things are on the right track. Calm down.

 

[Pilchard]

Many of the same people that bitch about Manning's "coaching" are the same people that ragged about "play-calling" during Clawson's first couple of years. Should we bring out all those posts?

This year in football, with an experienced and talented O line and elite receivers, WF had it's best offense ever... by miles. It wasn't the play-calling, when WF football struggled to get to double digits. It was the lack of talent (and it didn't help that our radio color guy was scheming with opposing DCs).

Same is true this year in hoop. Doral Moore struggled to get 5 minutes on the court last year, and this year he is WF's only inside option. Terrence Thompson starts and averages 20+ minutes a game on this team out of necessity. Last year, Thompson was the 7th man for a middling mid-major playing an average of 14 minutes a game; he hustles and seems like a good kid, but he has no business starting in the ACC. Chaundee and Sarr are going to get there, but like most freshman they frequently struggle. WF rolled BC three times last year because WF had a NBA power forward that BC had no answer for. This year, the WF and BC talent level is comparable and BC won a home game that they had to have, and some people freak out like Manning somehow kept a loaded team from crushing a BC team that is 8-1 at home with a win over Duke.

Have no problem critiquing Manning for the team's play at the start of year as the team was not ready to play, and lost to teams that WF should always beat. That said, the results since the first 4 games have been as expected. Since the start, WF has beaten the teams that it should beat; WF almost stole the game at UNC, beat Cuse at home, and then lost to a decent BC team. With this roster, this is a 6-8 win ACC team. With JC and Dinos, WF wins 10 or 11 ACC games, and is headed to the dance again. Better players are coming, but for now, just stupid to get apoplectic when WF plays to its talent level.

 

[Demonwolverine]

I think what is so frustrating is the inconsistency. This team has shown what they're capable of. Early against Cuse, we looked great. We were dominating them and dissecting their defense. Then, for seemingly no reason at all, we just stopped moving on offense. We stopped doing what was working, and then didn't get back to it until about 15 minutes left in the second half.

Against BC, we looked strong early. Lots of good movement and energy, then we stopped running the offense around the 10 minute mark in the first half, and never really picked it back up. We've all seen what this team is capable of, but they constantly regress mid game, and it seems so avoidable. I expect shooting droughts. Those happen. I understand dumb turnovers. What I don't understand is why we spend 5-10 minutes per half standing around and not executing what appears to be a solid game plan.

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

I think what is so frustrating is the inconsistency. This team has shown what they're capable of. Early against Cuse, we looked great. We were dominating them and dissecting their defense. Then, for seemingly no reason at all, we just stopped moving on offense. We stopped doing what was working, and then didn't get back to it until about 15 minutes left in the second half.

Against BC, we looked strong early. Lots of good movement and energy, then we stopped running the offense around the 10 minute mark in the first half, and never really picked it back up. We've all seen what this team is capable of, but they constantly regress mid game, and it seems so avoidable. I expect shooting droughts. Those happen. I understand dumb turnovers. What I don't understand is why we spend 10 minutes per half standing around and not executing what appears to be a solid game plan.

First two bolded, this is because we are a heavily guard-oriented team and when they start to struggle everyone struggles. Missing Keyshawn for both the last two games definitely didn't help this.

To the third bolded, I've been saying that for quite some time. You can tell there is a good game plan in place but the players go on spells of not executing it properly.

Lastly, I think a lot of people tend to only focus on us rather than that the other team may have done something differently to slow our momentum, then Wake adjusts, etc. etc. Like when we played Cuse - we were dominating at the beginning of the game for some time but we're playing against a hall of fame coach. He will make adjustments. Manning then made adjustments of his own and the players executed the game plan = win.

 

[Demonwolverine]

Lastly, I think a lot of people tend to only focus on us rather than that the other team may have done something differently to slow our momentum, then Wake adjusts, etc. etc. Like when we played Cuse - we were dominating at the beginning of the game for some time but we're playing against a hall of fame coach. He will make adjustments. Manning then made adjustments of his own and the players executed the game plan = win.

Agreed. Our adjustments have to come quicker though. There is too much time spent in no man's land. If it takes a timeout to refocus the team, then take a timeout and get the team ready to adjust the game plan. I feel like we keep waiting until halftime to pivot.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

Have no problem critiquing Manning for the team's play at the start of year as the team was not ready to play, and lost to teams that WF should always beat. That said, the results since the first 4 games have been as expected. Since the start, WF has beaten the teams that it should beat; WF almost stole the game at UNC, beat Cuse at home, and then lost to a decent BC team. With this roster, this is a 6-8 win ACC team. With JC and Dinos, WF wins 10 or 11 ACC games, and is headed to the dance again. Better players are coming, but for now, just stupid to get apoplectic when WF plays to its talent level.

Yeah - all of this. Obviously losing JC hurt (will turn out being one of the best bigs in Wake history, especially looking solely at his sophomore year) but the timing of Dinos leaving also killed us. Not trying to rip on Thompson, but having him as the addition for Dinos instead of being able to hit the graduate transfer market earlier if Dinos left earlier has really hurt us inside.

 

[wfu22fan]

As difficult as it might be to accept, we simply don't have the talent to compete at a high level in the ACC. Add to that the terrible decisions that our guards habitually make and there's not much hope. It's difficult to improve talent in the course of a season; but decision-making is another matter altogether. I get the idea of wanting the guards to play a free spirited type of game...unafraid to make mistakes. However turnovers are a killer unless you have extremely high level scorers who can compensate, which we do not. The guards need to be reigned in a bit and taken off the floor for carelessness with the ball, including stupid shots.

Our coaches seem to think that it is not possible to teach a team to play fast AND to play under control. The thought of playing a disciplined game in which plays are designed to get shots for the best shooters at their most effective places on the court, seems foreign to this staff. The plan seems to be that the first guy that's open shoots. So defenses just give certain players open shots over and over and those players happily shoot and miss over and over. We have certain players who ought not to shoot the ball so much, especially from 3.

Great post. It seems that everyone on our team has a green light to shoot a three. Odom was the opposite of Manning in many ways, but particularly on offensive schemes. Players like Josh Shoemaker had a red light on three point shots and DO used many set plays to get shots for particular players.

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

Great post. It seems that everyone on our team has a green light to shoot a three. Odom was the opposite of Manning in many ways, but particularly on offensive schemes. Players like Josh Shoemaker had a red light on three point shots and DO used many set plays to get shots for particular players.

The reason for this is probably because we are 1. heavily guard-oriented and 2. the 32nd best team in the country at 3pt fg%.