If Bz was to go

[DeaconBrews]

Until they consider Derps per game (dpg) then it will be hard to measure who was the "worst" player. It is a matter of opinion.

 

[jaybone]

I consider myself somewhat of a historian regarding the legacy of Sharmaine Dukes. After much debate and pondering, I have concluded that Joe Dukes would challenge Tony C. for minutes and likely split PG duties if he was on this team.

I think some of Tony's skills get overlooked and taken for granted. Now, it seems like it should be a given that point guard should be able to get the ball past midcourt in 8 seconds without help, but it is easy to take for granted. Tony has yet to need any help from anyone. With his strength and ability to protect the ball, he has yet to lose the ball under pressure from the opposing point guard.

I remind you of that difficulty with Justin Gray at the point and to a lesser degree with Dukes.

Tony, from my perspective, simply lacks a natural feel for being a college point guard. This is somewhat understandable as he wasn't a point in high school or at least his last year in high school and he missed most of last year. Still, it ain't good when your college point guard wants to shoot when he should pass and pass when he should shoot. I think he has gotten better at it, and I noticed some improvement in the 2nd half against State. He stopped at the foul line on a fast break after three straight bad decisions on prior fast breaks. On another occasion, he penetrated on the zone defense in the half court offense, got into the paint and threw it out to Travis for an open 3.

You can call these baby steps if you like, but he is still just a soph. He's hit some big layups with guards draped on him. He's made some clutch shots in our wins. He's also taken some bad shots at clutch moments, but so has Travis and CJ.

I think he's learning how to be a good ACC point guard and will be an important asset in his junior and senior seasons. Frankly, I think he gets piled on because the hope was that he was THE ANSWER at point.

I've actually enjoyed watching these last few games. Nikita isn't driving me insane. CJ and Chase are playing well and within themselves. Travis is struggling and Walker hasn't played as well as he had in previous games, but I feel like we are taking steps offensively. Defensively, other than Nikita, Tony, and Walker, we really suck. Some of that seems to be foot speed, but we are losing games because we can't keep two of three permimeter players out of the paint.

 

[RJKarl]

Even when Tony has a really good game well over half of the discussion is about the mistakes he made.

It's disgraceful.

If Tony's ballhandling was 1/2 as bad as Chase's defense, this board would have exploded already.

 

[bojanglefunk]

I consider myself somewhat of a historian regarding the legacy of Sharmaine Dukes. After much debate and pondering, I have concluded that Joe Dukes would challenge Tony C. for minutes and likely split PG duties if he was on this team.

You didn't even spell his name right.

 

[OldGoldBeard]

Even when Tony has a really good game well over half of the discussion is about the mistakes he made.

It's disgraceful.

If Tony's ballhandling was 1/2 as bad as Chase's defense, this board would have exploded already.

A lot of it would die down if you didn't have a kinipchin every time someone criticized him.

Also, that's raciost.

 

[RJKarl]

OK I got the word wrong

I don't say anything until after you and others lose your minds.

 

[wfumike02]

I consider myself somewhat of a historian regarding the legacy of Sharmaine Dukes. After much debate and pondering, I have concluded that Joe Dukes would challenge Tony C. for minutes and likely split PG duties if he was on this team.

No.

 

[jaybone]

Even when Tony has a really good game well over half of the discussion is about the mistakes he made.

It's disgraceful.

If Tony's ballhandling was 1/2 as bad as Chase's defense, this board would have exploded already.

good God, RJ. This is me standing and looking down at you in the abyss (cue David Lee Roth line).

Our perimeter defense in general is not very good. Chase is no better no worse right now than CJ and Travis. Just an FYI, I don't think Chase spent a minute on CJ Williams last weekend and that guy got off open look after open look on straight two dribble no stutter step, no ball fake, no cross over, no quick step penetration into the lane. CJ and Travis were on him. Chase was not.

 

[RJKarl]

Chase has the opportunity to be an elite shooter when he gets more confidence and his footwork down.

With more scoring options on the court, Chase can come in and be a specialist.

Unfirtunately, he can't cover ACC guards.

 

[WT901]

Even when Tony has a really good game well over half of the discussion is about the mistakes he made.

It's disgraceful.

If Tony's ballhandling was 1/2 as bad as Chase's defense, this board would have exploded already.

 

[jaybone]

Chase has the opportunity to be an elite shooter when he gets more confidence and his footwork down.

With more scoring options on the court, Chase can come in and be a specialist.

Unfirtunately, he can't cover ACC guards.

1. I disagree
2. I assume you will stop harassing people who make negative posts about current player on the assumption that they read the board. I mean, that would be hypocritical, right?

 

[RJKarl]

It's one thing to say someone has a problem with one aspect of the game (when he does) versus stating a player is horrible.

Would it be hypocrtitical to say a RB is a really good runner but can't block?

Does everyone have to be considered to be great at everything?

BTW how many good to great shooters are good defenders?

 

[jaybone]

it's fine line. That you crossed. Saying someone is a good shooter who struggles defensively is one thing. Saying someone is a good shooter who can't guard guards is a whole other thing. And yes, making you now a hypocrite.

If you are gonna go negative like that, and with your baggage, then you need to be way more careful in how you do it.

Your analogy is a poor one because there are plenty of tailbacks that "can't block" or don't block well anyway. That can be covered up for the most part by playing them mostly on running downs. Every hoops player must play defense or he hurts the team

 

[RJKarl]

It's not a fine line at all nor is it hypocritical. I am not saying Chase isn't worth having on our team. I'm not saying Chase is terrible. i'm not saying he's the worst player we've ever had at his position. I'm not overlooking everything else he does because of one weakness.

le bone, I didn't think you'd go to the either "you are 100% behind or 100% against" crew. That's what you are saying here.

 

[jaybone]

No. I'm saying you fucked up how you presented a perceived negative aspect of Chase's game and I think it makes you a hypocrite.

You don't get to tell one poster that they are hurting the program by blah blah blah one week and posting somewhat similar stuff a week later. You come off like a reactionary fool.

And I disagree with you, btw. I think Chase works hard on D and does a pretty good job. Woods got most of his points with Travis on him last weekend, not Chase, and Chase guarded him for a long stretch of the game. Because Woods is a standstill shooter and Chase didn't cheat off him and duck into the lane the way Travis did. I also think Chase forced at least one if not two moving screen calls by working hard to get through a screen. Travis slid under the screen and around. Not going to get moving screen calls if you don't attack the screener.

Again, not saying Chase is Bruce Bowen on defense. I think he has the potential to be a better defender. He works so hard to stay in front of his man AND defend the jumper that he gets beat off the dribble. Some of that, he has happy feet which means he can fix that. Some of it is just athleticism/lateral speed, but regardless, when the game slows down he'll get a little better.

 

[TBR]

Tony is pretty good at penetration, not great at scoring unless the defender is a guard. If we had a post player he could throw to, he might be a more dynamic point guard. It seems to me that Bzd is trying to get him to penetrate and dish for 3s and open jumpers which goes against everything Philly, but he has started to do just that.

While not all of our struggles are talent specific, they are not all Bzd-specific. Right now, we have nobody with a post game save Nikita, and he can only go left. The fact that our offense has been pretty good against UNC and State has a little to do with the fact that guys have bought in. Nikita is getting his points in the paint, not with outside jumpers. Tony is making fewer head down drives to the basket (except on fast breaks, which he seemed to correct in the 2nd half against State), we are getting Chase involved and getting CJ good shots. And Travis has struggled a lot of games the past three weeks.

While CJ is a terrible rebounder for a guard, it looks to me like Bzd has done a pretty good job of getting Tony to go after long boards. We don't box out well outside of three feet though and that is both coaching and experience.

A little objectivity people. If you are going to go with the mob mentality and be willing to string up Bzd to a tree as some of you are, that strange fruit is gonna take you at least til the end of 2014. That's a long time to be in mob mode.

I think it's pretty objective to say that there are multiple sources of our problems.

I agree the offense has looked decent at times. It has rarely looked great and was dog shit awful in the UNC game. I think it's clear that players are buying in to the ideas, but they aren't executing consistently. Whether that's coaching or the players I don't know. I do know that after some 50 games playing this offense it is still very, very bad.

 

[RJKarl]

le bone,Wrong! One aspect of a guy's game doesn't equal in any way trashing every aspect and every play by another player.

Show me on this thread where I have said someone is hurting the program?

It's you who is looking sad and falling into the "if you don't hate the guy, you must think he's god" trap.

I never said Chase didn't try hard. It's a weakness he has.

By the way, I have repeatedly posted Tony shouldn't take threes. I guess in your world that makes me a hypocrite as well.

You have fallen for their tap. I didn't think that would happen.

 

[RJKarl]

I think it's pretty objective to say that there are multiple sources of our problems.

I agree the offense has looked decent at times. It has rarely looked great and was dog shit awful in the UNC game. I think it's clear that players are buying in to the ideas, but they aren't executing consistently. Whether that's coaching or the players I don't know. I do know that after some 50 games playing this offense it is still very, very bad.

First of all, last year Ari didn't buy into the offense. There were other distractions.

the fact is we are playing better than last year on offense as is shown by committing about 20% few TOs/game.

Our major problem is the bigs haven't gotten it yet. They don't make themselves available for passes in positions where they can score.

In addition to lower TOs, we are giving up fewer points than last year.

there is still a ways to go. We have made progress.

We are still woefully short on the bench. This problem leads to other problems and will hopefully be fixed ned year.

Also our lack of rebounding makes it so we get very few easy baskets. Again we may have addressed part of this for next year.

 

[jaybone]

This is the point in the argument where you get crazy obstinate and start throwing crazy shit at the wall hoping for some of it to stick.

You periodically do accuse a poster of posting stuff that hurts the program/recruiting.

You just fucked up the words you used. That's it, but coming from you, it smacks of hypocrisy since you have been known to call out other posters for similar crap.

not taking 3s is different than saying a guard can't guard ACC guards. Just is. In my book. You go on with your world/sports/Wake view as I am obviously not going to change it.

But I think you fucked up.

 

[RJKarl]

What "crazy shit" have I thrown up" on this thread? This is the thread yo uare complaining about.

So now you have two sets of rules for me. First I can't make contructive criticisms about anyone's game. Next, I am the only person who can't have "fucked up words".

I would thought this of you.