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Illinois Post Game Thoughts

I think we played about as well as we can last night. Certainly areas for improvement and the need to give Mitchell and Sarr more PT. The biggest weakness we have is this team lacks a go-to leader.
 
Fusiondad10 said:
This was the first game I've watched. I have read all the moaning and groaning on the boards with our very bad start. It's pretty clear a couple things are at play for sure in our early season.....1) the loss of Collins, Dino, and Arians is a major loss in scoring, rebounding, and leadership that won't be overcome easily no matter what. 2) The coaches are still trying to figure out what lineups and style of play will work best with this roster. We have no identity at all right now. 3) Doral Moore is much improved and will get better 4) freshmen are freshmen 5) Crawford and Woods aren't handling the leadership "go to" roles very well and until they do we will likely struggle. Stat lines aren't enough from those two players.
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This is probably the best summary of our season I’ve seen thus far.
 
In my opinion, Mitchell and Melo should get all of Thompson's minutes. ALL OF THEM.

They have higher upside and it will be more beneficial to the program in the long run.

Thompson seems like a nice guy though.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Wake really really sucks at rebounding.
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The problem may be that our best rebounder is Terrence Thompson who is not playing well enough overall to get meaningful minutes. While averaging only 18 minutes per game he is pulling down 5 rebounds per game.
 
What concerns me is our offense is very much whoever brings the ball across half court is going to shoot... the other four guys might as well sit down and take a breather. As a result, the ball is not fed inside to guys when they are opened. Late in the game we kicked out the ball better to open guys at least.

I am not sure if Crawford and the other guards do not have the confidence in Sarr, Thompson, Brown or Mitchell but they seem to hold onto the ball even when the others have open looks.
 
I think the biggest issue is that Thompson is clearly the best option at the 4 to rebound, but he isn't good at anything else. He is probably at a reasonable defensive level inside, but I haven't really seen enough to tell. I think Melo, Sarr, and Mitchell probably bring more to the table than Thompson right now, but they don't rebound very well, so it's kind of an odd thing to have to balance.

Our guards are pretty much all down percentage-wise on the defensive rebounding by 5% or so, which isn't helping either, especially when rebounding out of a zone.
 
Sarr got AFTER a rebound last night. He can be a good rebounder once he bulks up, I think.
 
Would also be nice if we ran a few more plays for Brown to get loose off screens and picks to pop for a mid-range jumper or an easier 1 dribble drive into the lane for a floater. He seems to have great body control and a knack for hanging in the air on his mid-range jumper. I recall a nifty little hanging, somewhat drifting mid-range jumper from the elbow earlier in the season against GSU I think? We need more Chaundee and he needs more touches out of the offense cuz as others have noted, his handles are a bit of a WIP for this level and he won't be breaking too many ankles just yet.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I think the biggest issue is that Thompson is clearly the best option at the 4 to rebound, but he isn't good at anything else. He is probably at a reasonable defensive level inside, but I haven't really seen enough to tell. I think Melo, Sarr, and Mitchell probably bring more to the table than Thompson right now, but they don't rebound very well, so it's kind of an odd thing to have to balance.

Our guards are pretty much all down percentage-wise on the defensive rebounding by 5% or so, which isn't helping either, especially when rebounding out of a zone.
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Over the past five games Thompson is averaging 3.4 rpg (granted in less mpg).

RE: Guards down in rebounding- How many times did I post about how JC, Dinos and Arians cleared out areas for the guards to get the ball and run? Conservatively, I'd say a couple dozen. Why are you surprised? All you had to do was watch the games to see that the guards would get far less defensive rpg.

What makes it worse is that Key and Bryant have to try to box out for smaller, less physical guards. It's a double loss. Opponents can simply reach over Key and Bryant or toss Chill and Wilbekin out of the way. Even with Chaundee, he's great size for a guard, but not big or experienced enough to play against bigs.
 
Some very nice analysis in the OP, especially about playing zone.

Only saw the first half, and would just add:

- as long as Moore is, he should have cement blocks around his ankles and never ever jump up for a pump fake. Only did so once and they got the easy layup.

- Moore is a lot of fun to watch. Actually enjoying all the “learning curve” and growth guys. He posts up, turns to his weaker shoulder, into the paint, and I swear he shoots down at the basket. He literally needs to walk down to the block and establish the lowest possible position possible. Make them push you off that block, if they can. Feed him there.

- Brown drives to his right, jumps up, and whips a pass back into the paint to a cutting Thompson. It’s like throwing late across the middle in football. That is not a basketball move, more like the game needs to slow down for Brown there. Easy deflection. Either shoot it or just keep dribbling, but never jump to pass.

- Woods wants to win. Putting far too much pressure on himself. Probably needs a calm down and just shoot that sweet jumper talk. Shoot it a lot. I wish I had that stroke, ever in my lifetime, he should embrace the Bill Walton joy of the game so to speak. We need him if we want to somehow sneak into the NIT.

- I like Mitchell but he too needs to slow down out there. Defensively he is not sliding ala Josh Howard, instead is jumping and bounding forward and back in the zone. Slide young Jedi, slide. He also has his Mark Jackson, hands down, man down. Manning...show Tony Bennett UVA tapes...get your damn hands up especially in the zone.

- Crawford is almost an enigma, but he just toyed with shitty Mark Smith. Just abused Smith a few times and blew right by him. If Craw had confidence in his mid-range jumper, he could have scored at will on Smith. Crawford needs to quickly assert himself as the leader, which means no “fall away 3 pointers” after a Curly Neal dribbling display. Those fall away threes do not go in the basket. Pass and share the ball. Simple Spurs ball movement, will result in way better looks.

- Sarr and his development is worth attending the games. Very curious to follow his progress. Super high upside.

- Black for Illinois is a complete idiot, but I would love an idiot PF in a Wake jersey right now.

- 4 guard lineup leads to no defensive rebounding at all. Stupid coaching decision. Bite the bullet and play Mitchell or Thompson at the 4 so we can actually get the ball back.

- this team may not win a lot, but they took a lot of pride and showed a lot of pride last night. Effort was there. Credit to the players and coaches for that.

- team is limited, so if we want to win, it must be a commitment to winning via less turnovers, less Curly Neal dribbling displays leading to terrible shots, share the basketball, hands up on D, play zone, keep your feet on the ground, play anyone taller than 6’5 at PF, and finally, feed Moore on that low block, get him 10+ shots per game and force the double team, which leads to wide open threes if he pitches it back out. Pretty simple shit we all learned in middle school.

P.S. ESPN in their Duke love fest is talking about Bagley and how he compares to Tim Duncan. No. Just no.
 
Based on a David Robinson quote nonetheless.
 
Thompson may be a reasonable offensive rebounder. But, he is really weak with the ball down low. He either gets stripped, misses a put-back, or gets fouled where he is a poor FT shooter. Not a threat to shoot at all. I'm certainly glad he is on team, as we need him to play backup minutes, but he is pretty limited.
 
Complacent Deac said:
Some very nice analysis in the OP, especially about playing zone.

Only saw the first half, and would just add:

- as long as Moore is, he should have cement blocks around his ankles and never ever jump up for a pump fake. Only did so once and they got the easy layup.

- Moore is a lot of fun to watch. Actually enjoying all the “learning curve” and growth guys. He posts up, turns to his weaker shoulder, into the paint, and I swear he shoots down at the basket. He literally needs to walk down to the block and establish the lowest possible position possible. Make them push you off that block, if they can. Feed him there.

- Brown drives to his right, jumps up, and whips a pass back into the paint to a cutting Thompson. It’s like throwing late across the middle in football. That is not a basketball move, more like the game needs to slow down for Brown there. Easy deflection. Either shoot it or just keep dribbling, but never jump to pass.

- Woods wants to win. Putting far too much pressure on himself. Probably needs a calm down and just shoot that sweet jumper talk. Shoot it a lot. I wish I had that stroke, ever in my lifetime, he should embrace the Bill Walton joy of the game so to speak. We need him if we want to somehow sneak into the NIT.

- I like Mitchell but he too needs to slow down out there. Defensively he is not sliding ala Josh Howard, instead is jumping and bounding forward and back in the zone. Slide young Jedi, slide. He also has his Mark Jackson, hands down, man down. Manning...show Tony Bennett UVA tapes...get your damn hands up especially in the zone.

- Crawford is almost an enigma, but he just toyed with shitty Mark Smith. Just abused Smith a few times and blew right by him. If Craw had confidence in his mid-range jumper, he could have scored at will on Smith. Crawford needs to quickly assert himself as the leader, which means no “fall away 3 pointers” after a Curly Neal dribbling display. Those fall away threes do not go in the basket. Pass and share the ball. Simple Spurs ball movement, will result in way better looks.

- Sarr and his development is worth attending the games. Very curious to follow his progress. Super high upside.

- Black for Illinois is a complete idiot, but I would love an idiot PF in a Wake jersey right now.

- 4 guard lineup leads to no defensive rebounding at all. Stupid coaching decision. Bite the bullet and play Mitchell or Thompson at the 4 so we can actually get the ball back.

- this team may not win a lot, but they took a lot of pride and showed a lot of pride last night. Effort was there. Credit to the players and coaches for that.

- team is limited, so if we want to win, it must be a commitment to winning via less turnovers, less Curly Neal dribbling displays leading to terrible shots, share the basketball, hands up on D, play zone, keep your feet on the ground, play anyone taller than 6’5 at PF, and finally, feed Moore on that low block, get him 10+ shots per game and force the double team, which leads to wide open threes if he pitches it back out. Pretty simple shit we all learned in middle school.

P.S. ESPN in their Duke love fest is talking about Bagley and how he compares to Tim Duncan. No. Just no.
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Good post but the bold part is little sad.
 
Complacent Deac said:
Yeah, that is just not right.
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True. Duncan was a great defender and rebounder and efficient offensive player. Bagley is much more advanced offensively as a freshman and more athletic but he’s never going to win 5 rings.
 
Complacent Deac said:
and finally, feed Moore on that low block, get him 10+ shots per game and force the double team, which leads to wide open threes if he pitches it back out. Pretty simple shit we all learned in middle school.
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So much of this. How many times have we had bigs that played small, we now have a true big that doesn't screw around with layups and dunks the ball if he's within two feet of the rim. The fact that he has a nice little hook going is a big bonus. JC was a smaller target down low, Moore is an easy target if the guards will look for him first.
 
wfu22fan said:
True. Duncan was a great defender and rebounder and efficient offensive player. Bagley is much more advanced offensively as a freshman and more athletic but he’s never going to win 5 rings.
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Besides, he's got the dook curse going against him. Irving might be the only guy from dook to live up to the hype and avoid a career limiting injury.
 
Plus one and done guys don't improve at Duke. Hell, bigs almost never improve at Duke no matter how long they stay.
 
Fusiondad10 said:
This was the first game I've watched. I have read all the moaning and groaning on the boards with our very bad start.
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Why on earth would you subject yourself to the bitching on the boards without having watched the game? Seems like unnecessary torture.
 
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