• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Indictment of Jeff [Redacted]

2-48 on the road in his last 50 conference road games. It really is a stunning statistic.
 
pourdeac said:
Regardless of situation? 99.9% of those coaching changes are relatively normal. This situation was extreme from the start. Can you name one coach at this level that was told to completely rebuild the program in a completely different 180° direction, but told to retain all coaches, players, and existing recruits? I'm not aware of one.

The notion that "no other coach would survive it" is sort of funny given he was told winning wasn't important for the first 2 years. How many coaches are even told that? Probably only after a scandal...which is how Wellman treated the situation.

And hell, I'm not even saying he should stay, all I've said is he blew it last night on the road with a team of his experienced players and if things don't change ASAP in that regard, he needs to go. Sorry it's not "fuck Bz" enough you.
Click to expand...

Posting the same thing over and over again, ignoring the fact that insiders have exposed this account as false, does not make it true. You're entitled to your opinion, one that nobody but yourself and a handful of posters on TOBs share, but it's an opinion that has seen its day long pass it by... There is literally not a single statistic, written account from inside or outside sources, or subjective or objective interpretation of game tape or interview footage that supports your account. And if there is, it would do wonders to substantiate your assertions, rather than posting the same contrarian and unfounded take 3-4 times per basketball thread.

There's no way that you can watch the massacre that is the Buzz-era on a nightly basis (I've missed watching maybe 10 games in four years and have only been able to watch a handful of games on television) and post this garbage. If you do, then how do you justify writing posts like this? Who or what point does it serve? Do you get DC points by posting things like this on here? Does Ron give you seat upgrades? Is it a BSD situation that involves candlelit steak dinners with Buzz himself? What are we talking about here?

I really want to know because it seems like we haven't been watching the same team play for the past four seasons, or Dino's teams before that, for that matter, even though we seemingly share the same values as fans: 1) win games without cheating, 2) create a culture in which student athletes maximize their professional and academic potential, and 3) show up to play every night with aggressiveness, preparedness, and class.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
RChildress107 said:
According to basketball reference's rating system there has only been one non-buzz coached Wake team in the last 25 years worse than this one (06-07). And if we are discounting years 1 and 2, buzz still has two of the five worst seasons of the past 35 years of Wake Basketball.
Click to expand...

And that happened to be the team that lost to Bzz's Air Force team. That alone should make them worse. I dare say that one night in Nov was the single worse night in the history of Wake b-ball.
 
woody9186 said:
Are you serious? Miami lost their entire starting lineup this year and are ranked higher in KenPom than we are in Year 4 of Buzz. You are delusional.
Click to expand...
What does "lose their entire starting lineup this year" have to do with anything? We lost our entire TEAM in Years 1 and 2.
 
pourdeac said:
It's called respect, know what that means? It means, any hired coach at Wake deserves to get a fair shot at Wake to win under a fair set of conditions.

He was not hired into a fair set of conditions by any means. He was asked to do things most other coaches aren't asked to do, working with a set of players that personality wise fit Dino who is the polar opposite, and told winning doesn't matter. The only way to fairly assess his performance at Wake was after the transition was over, with his players, and when winning mattered to the AD.

Pointing to Colorado is irrelevant to his performance at Wake. Pointing to years 1 and 2 is irrelevant given Wellman's stupidity. Putting much meaning on Year 3 is weak given it was with a team of freshmen. This is the first year that has real meaning at Wake as far as winning and we should just let it play out. If he's the coach you think he is and I suspect he is, then the poor data/results will happen this year....like last night....and changes will be made.

I really don't get why it's so hard to understand. I've been saying the same thing over and over again.
Click to expand...

Holy shit. This jackass is in his 7th season coaching major conference basketball and this is the only one that should be used when evaluating him. That is quite possibly the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard.

The fact that you actually typed that out and put it on the internet absolutely boggles my mind.
 
pourdeac said:
Regardless of situation? 99.9% of those coaching changes are relatively normal. This situation was extreme from the start. Can you name one coach at this level that was told to completely rebuild the program in a completely different 180° direction, but told to retain all coaches, players, and existing recruits? I'm not aware of one.

The notion that "no other coach would survive it" is sort of funny given he was told winning wasn't important for the first 2 years. How many coaches are even told that? Probably only after a scandal...which is how Wellman treated the situation.

And hell, I'm not even saying he should stay, all I've said is he blew it last night on the road with a team of his experienced players and if things don't change ASAP in that regard, he needs to go. Sorry it's not "fuck Bz" enough you.
Click to expand...

Just about everything you said is completely wrong. With the exception of 'he blew it last night'....and 'he needs to go'.

I can't even begin to comprehend where you come up with this garbage. My guess, you are a woman's field hockey fan and you stumbled upon basketball recently, and think you know what you are talking about...you clearly have no clue.
 
ibleedgoldandblack said:
Holy shit. This jackass is in his 7th season coaching major conference basketball and this is the only one that should be used when evaluating him. That is quite possibly the dumbest fucking thing I have ever heard.
Click to expand...

But, that's what's FAIR man!
 
pourdeac said:
Pointing to Colorado is irrelevant to his performance at Wake.
Click to expand...


Can you name another ACC, or high major program, that hired a coach on a 3 year losing streak? I can't. And let's not forget all of the transfers under [Redacted] at both Colorado and Wake. Was Colorado a program that was in need of a culture shake up? So I damn sure think that his time at Colorado is relevant.
 
RChildress107 said:
This isn't true. But even if it is it's just evidence that Wellman should be fired in addition to [Redacted].
Click to expand...
What do you mean it isn't true? We brought him in to completely change the program. His personality and style is 180° from Dino's. He was asked to rebuild WITH all of Dino's players, coaches, and recruits.....a group of which he did not fit in with personality wise. He was asked to change recruiting which had to have caused recruiting problems out of the gate (and obviously did). Wellman repeatedly said, winning didn't matter...and several posters have backed that up internally.

Have you EVER seen a situation like that in major college athletics?

Wellman thought Dino was THE problem and IMO never expected things to get this bad.

And yeah...Wellman should be fired for it. That's what I said way way back in Year 1 while most probably including you were still on his bandwagon....and have said so ever since.
 
pourdeac said:
What does "lose their entire starting lineup this year" have to do with anything? We lost our entire TEAM in Years 1 and 2.
Click to expand...

Because Larranaga is winning games with a completely different and young team this year, including a game AT Carolina. The point is that any coach may have struggled with the situation [Redacted] inherited, but it is safe to say that there is not a single coach who would have struggled quite as badly (Buzz inherited veterans [including starters CJ Harris, Gary Clark, and Ty Walker], if you remember, and a highly ranked group of freshmen [including Travis McKie and heavy rotation players Chase Fischer, our savior Daniel Green, JT Terrell, Carson Desrosiers, etc.) or with as little class as was the case with Buzz's rebuild.

Also, we didn't lose our entire team - they either transferred due to our staff's conduct and personal wishes (Tony C [he was named CMM's backup before his family issues], Ari [well-documented, by now], and Carson), because they were not ACC caliber (Anthony and Chase), or because their legal situations likely forced both their and our AD's hands (JT, Tony W, and Melvin).

If our situation is so different, then name a rebuild (not engineered by Buzz) that has gone this poorly given our roster composition at the time, defections, and subsequent recruiting efforts. I'll keep my mind open if you can find another program that has failed as badly as ours amidst a coaching transition.

You're just spinning a situation that doesn't improve with spin. Buzz has had plenty of time to recruit (he's failed to recruit ACC-caliber talent, as well as positions of need...not to mention his utter inability to manage class-size and scholarship allocation with an eye toward the program's future) and both coach and develop teams instilled with his "culture" and "system" - whatever they may be - and he's objectively failed at every possible level.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
CHillDeac said:
Can you name another ACC, or high major program, that hired a coach on a 3 year losing streak? I can't.
Click to expand...
No, which is one reason I thought it was a stupid hire and said so in Year 1, and especially after I dug up the rebound stats (yes, that was me) that we now all point to because that suggested a reason for all the losing.

However, it is in fact irrelevant to his performance AT WAKE which is how I judge ALL coaches after they are hired. A loss at Colorado does not go on his Wake record as far as I know.
 
CHillDeac said:
Can you name another ACC, or high major program, that hired a coach on a 3 year losing streak? I can't. And let's not forget all of the transfers under [Redacted] at both Colorado and Wake. Was Colorado a program that was in need of a culture shake up? So I damn sure think that his time at Colorado is relevant.
Click to expand...

And if his Colorado tenure isn't relevant, what exactly is? The Nuggets? Air Force? pourdeac steps in it again.
 
pourdeac said:
No, which is one reason I thought it was a stupid hire and said so in Year 1, and especially after I dug up the rebound stats (yes, that was me) that we now all point to because that suggested a reason for all the losing.

However, it is in fact irrelevant to his performance AT WAKE which is how I judge ALL coaches after they are hired. A loss at Colorado does not go on his Wake record as far as I know.
Click to expand...

You know that you can use historical trends to predict future patterns of behavior, and, if those predictions come true for precisely the reasons that the trends suggest, that you may need to take seriously the importance of these past examples to explaining our current predicament, right?
 
pourdeac said:
No, which is one reason I thought it was a stupid hire and said so in Year 1, and especially after I dug up the rebound stats (yes, that was me) that we now all point to because that suggested a reason for all the losing.

However, it is in fact irrelevant to his performance AT WAKE which is how I judge ALL coaches after they are hired. A loss at Colorado does not go on his Wake record as far as I know.
Click to expand...

Are we evaluating his skills as a basketball coach? Yes
Was he a basketball coach at Colorado? Yes
Is it fair to look at his record at Colorado to determine the likelihood of future success? Yes

Under your dumbass analysis, a CFB team could hire Nick Saban or Lane Kiffin, but once they hire them, they should only evaluate them based on what they do once they're hired.
Newsflash: People with past success get longer leashes.

It's impossible that you are truly this dumb.
 
pourdeac has been peddling this nonsense for 3 years now and nobody is buying it.
 
Strickland33 said:
Because Larranaga is winning games with a completely different and young team this year, including a game AT Carolina. The point is that any coach may have struggled with the situation [Redacted] inherited, but it is safe to say that there is not a single coach who would have struggled quite as badly (Buzz inherited veterans [including starters CJ Harris, Gary Clark, and Ty Walker], if you remember, and a highly ranked group of freshmen [including Travis McKie and heavy rotation players Chase Fischer, our savior Daniel Green, JT Terrell, Carson Desrosiers, etc.) or with as little class as was the case with Buzz's rebuild.

Also, we didn't lose our entire team - they either transferred due to our staff's conduct and personal wishes (Tony C [he was named CMM's backup before his family issues], Ari [well-documented, by now], and Carson), because they were not ACC caliber (Anthony and Chase), or because their legal situations likely forced both their and our AD's hands (JT, Tony W, and Melvin).

If our situation is so different, then name a rebuild (not engineered by Buzz) that has gone this poorly given our roster composition at the time, defections, and subsequent recruiting efforts. I'll keep my mind open if you can find another program that has failed as badly as ours amidst a coaching transition.

You're just spinning a situation that doesn't improve with spin. Buzz has had plenty of time to recruit (he's failed to recruit ACC-caliber talent, as well as positions of need...not to mention his utter inability to manage class-size and scholarship allocation with an eye toward the program's future) and both coach and develop teams instilled with his "culture" and "system" - whatever they may be - and he's objectively failed at every possible level.
Click to expand...
I agree with almost everything you're saying, so how could I be spinning things? All those failures will likely result in an insufficient W-L record this year and he'll be gone. Things will have played out. You're reading spin into it.

It's just amazing how many people bow up on the notion that it might be the right thing to do to just let it play out under a fair set of circumstances. Most coaches get 3 years to produce, and I believed the 4th was needed given Wellman's fuck up during the transition (I don't blame Wellman's decisions on Bz). That's all that it really boils down to..and it's just out of flat principle. You guys act as if I want him to get a lifetime contract.
 
You seem to want to suck his dick. Unfortunately, you have to wait your turn. Ron is thorough.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top