Is it time to move on from Jim Grobe?

[CheesePritchard]

Don't see WF buying out Jim Grobe. On the list of WF athletic department priorities, turning a profit is first, and everything else is on the next page. Unless someone outside the athletic department is willing to stroke a 7 figure check (whatever the buyout amount is at this point, its not less than 1/3 of the remaining amount to be paid on Grobe's contract, which is about $7 million), WF is not about to pay Grobe, and some new coach next year, when WF can simply keep Grobe and continue to make a nice profit. The only way WF has a new football coach in 2014 would be if Grobe decides that he wants to walk away.

This may be true, particularly our football situation, but you cannot necessarily evaluate the financials short term like this.

 

[PhDeac]

This thread will drop straight to the bottom, but only because this post nails what probably 90% of the fan base thinks.

What does your 10% think?

 

[CheesePritchard]

Why don't you tell us?

 

[PhDeac]

Eh. I'm on my phone so it would be tougher to sum up DCDeac's posts over the years. I do know that he believes it's unreasonable to expect Wake to regularly make bowls.

 

[Pilchard]

This may be true, particularly our football situation, but you cannot necessarily evaluate the financials short term like this.

Agree that a full analysis would require an understanding of at least the following factors: a) the yearly total projected revenue for the athletic department (which will be increasing due to the recent ACC TV deals, this may give WF some flexibility), b) the terms of Grobe's buyout and how it changes as the contract nears its end, c) the amount that WF could count on from its heavy hitter donors to pony up when Wellman goes to the bat phone, d) the amount that WF expects it would need to pay to hire the coach(s) that are targeted; e) the difference in football revenue if a change is made.

With all that said, there is no doubt that the buyout penalty reduces the closer it gets to the end of the contract, and if there is no buyout, WF's contract liability reduces as the contract nears its end. Finally, IIRC, among the terms of Grobe's contract is that he receives an significant annuity (bonus) if he completes his contract. So, WF would also need to deal with that if they want to terminate the contract. Admit I am speculating, but based upon my understanding of the athletic department and the amount of money left on Grobe's contract, I doubt WF will fire Grobe, pay a significant buyout and then bind itself to another substantial long term financial commitment to a new football coach.

 

[Screamindemon3]

No

 

[PhDeac]

Five straight losing seasons and he throws out a quote like this to ESPN: “I don’t think it’s a program thing, it’s just the way Wake Forest is always going to be,”

Definitely time for him to go.

Link to this article? Sounds like Grobe has given up when read out of context.

 

[wsc8521s]

Yes

 

[DCDeac]

Eh. I'm on my phone so it would be tougher to sum up DCDeac's posts over the years. I do know that he believes it's unreasonable to expect Wake to regularly make bowls.

Hey look, it's PhDeac spouting bullshit again. What a surprise.

See, we got in an argument recently (and a while back) where he painted Grobe's last few years as just as bad or worse than the Caldwell years, and furthermore suggested Wake's floor for wins should be around 6 or something. Now, while I certainly believe Wake can make bowl games regularly (given how easy it is these days), I also believe that the occasional down/rebuilding year, for which PhDeac immediately calls for the coach to be fired and with exquisite hindsight details all his shortcomings, is inevitable - particularly at Wake due to recruiting. He's been bitching about Grobe remaining our coach for years, whereas I enjoyed our season 2 years ago when we went 5-3 in the ACC and played in a solid bowl game, despite the bowl game loss leaving us under .500. This year, to me, was a referendum year, and Grobe has chosen to go down with the ship, so-to-speak, by retaining Lobo and the majority of the coaching staff after such poor offensive numbers historically during Grobe's tenure. Hence my support of Townie's post.

I've also posted on other threads my hope that Grobe either retires and we start with an entire new staff, or he remains but fires Lobo and company. I'd prefer the latter as the first scenario might lead us into a Lobo head coach regime, which terrifies me. I think it's nice that people forget that a "bad" year of Grobe put us in the Music City bowl with 5 ACC wins. Caldwell maxed out at 3 ACC wins (only twice) with his career highlight being an Aloha bowl appearance based on a losing ACC season that we won via food poisoning.

Per the usual, when confronted with actual stats and evidence refuting any idea of his, he'll just self-aggrandize by changing the opposing argument.

 

[PhDeac]

DC, you've disagreed with me on pretty much every post about the football program. I agree wholeheartedly with Townie's post. I assumed you fall on the other side.

My bad.

 

[deacsrus]

Lobo has to go--should have gone two years ago. If Grobe can't do this, whole staff needs to go.

 

[DCDeac]

DC, you've disagreed with me on pretty much every post about the football program. I agree wholeheartedly with Townie's post. I assumed you fall on the other side.

My bad.

I actually don't think we disagree all that much on the overall football program. And part of this is I remember you calling for Grobe's firing on the old board after his 1 win season talking about how he could only win with Caldwell recruits.

I hope I'm wrong and we can find a coach that turns us into Stanford. Maybe it's possible. Primarily at the moment I'm just dreading the "Grobe's retiring, Lobo's taking over" press conference.

Sorry if that post was overly-chippy. Don't like being told what I believe.

 

[Pilchard]

Love Jim Grobe. Have been a WF fan since the 1980s, and the highlight of my sports-fandom was the 2006 ACC title in J-ville. So, if it's my call, Grobe finishes out his contract or decides to walk away on his own. In my 30+ years of following WF sports, he accomplished more with less than any WF coach in any sport. BTW, two years ago, WF football was a Bud Noel dropped pick against Clemson from playing in the ACCCG; so there is some fairly recent evidence that Grobe can get it done. If Jim Grobe wants to turn WF football around again, have no problem with keeping Grobe through the end of his current contract.

With that said, very clear that the program has lost its juice, and I am not optimistic that Grobe has the drive to bring it back (hope to wrong about that). Also, while WF's had never recruited on the highest level in football, it does appear that recruiting has slipped (again, hope to be wrong). So, I understand and can't refute the argument that it is time for WF to go in another direction (btw, I don't think that those that post here realize how vociferously WF would be killed by the national media if Grobe was fired; he remains among the most respected coaches in the nation; this is not a factor that WF should rely on to not take the necessary steps to serve the school's best interests, this was just an aside). If WF believes Pete Lembo or Ken Niumatalolo or someone else is the answer and will take the job (there will be a ton of openings, and WF cannot have a Lee Fowler-like search where WF is the kid that loses the game of musical chairs), go for it.

As stated above, I think that WF's confidence that it will make a profit regardless how Grobe does next year will be the factor that keeps Grobe at the helm (unless he retires) for 2014, but we shall see.

 

[PhDeac]

Funny. Neither do I unless you get it correct.

Sorry but when some rarely agrees with me, I don't assume they agree with me. Throw in a few "good point, Ph" posts to put our actual disagreements in context.

To clarify on your last post, I didn't want Grobe to be fired. I did think 2006 was a put up or shut up year because we had experience and an easy schedule. That's why I was ecstatic at the "The Time is Now" slogan.

And I think history has made it pretty clear that he did better with Caldwell's recruits than with his own except for 3 or 4 seasons. Caldwell recruits have fared better in the NFL than Grobe recruits.

 

[CHillDeac]

Link to this article? Sounds like Grobe has given up when read out of context.

http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/60230/deacs-already-in-must-win-situation

 

[HONDO2]

I dunno how many of you watched the FSU game on ABC/ESPN.

Several times in the 3rd Q the broadcast crew went on at length on the classic LOWF angle....i.e., the school is so small ( the old graphic ), the stadium is so small ( again a graphic ), the academic rigors, recruiting AND how Grobe continues to work wonders blah, blah, blah and is the best option for Wake ( references to calls for a new direction/coach ). It was very orchestrated and frankly looked to be well planned in ADVANCE.

I nearly upchucked.

At no time was there ANY mention/correlation to Duke, BC, Vandy, Northwestern or even Stanford vis a vis facilities, academics versus the competition/conference foes and being annually competitive and often very good.

I hope Grobe retires and gets his due accolades BUT it's time to find the next Franklin NOT the next Cutcliff. I know Richmond has had a down year but Rocco's resume' is very good AND he's a Deac - TOTALLY familiar with the program !

 

[EatLeadCommie]

What should happen won't happen and that is for Ron Wellman to bring Jim Grobe into his office, show him the our pathetic offensive rankings from the past several seasons and tell him either Lobo goes or the whole staff goes. I love Grobe and I hate it, but that's the point it's at for me. We've had different offenses, different players, different offensive position coaches, but the one constant in our offensive suckitude is the guy that is the OC.

Yep. Have been saying this for a few years now. If Wellman actually did this and forced a firing, he'd actually earn brownie points from me.

 

[berneses]

I've heard from a couple of guys close to the program that Wellman and Grobe had serious talks last year about staff changes and there was significant resistance from Grobe. No idea if it's the absolute truth or not of course.

I would imagine those discussions would be stronger this year. I actually like the assistant coaches that Grobe has brought in. It's mainly the DC and OC that is the problem (especially the OC). Will Grobe be willing to publicly change the OC to keep his job. I think Grobe's loyalty is too strong to his assistants, especially Lobo and expect Grobe to retire by next Friday with a decent settlement from Wake.

 

[wsc8521s]

If WF believes Pete Lembo or Ken Niumatalolo or someone else is the answer and will take the job (there will be a ton of openings, and WF cannot have a Lee Fowler-like search where WF is the kid that loses the game of musical chairs), go for it.

I don't think there'll be a ton of openings this offseason due to firings. Looking around the landscape there don't seem to be an inordinate amount of cases where coaches are on the hot seat.

That said, some big jobs appear likely to open up, which could lead to a trickle-down effect if an USC or Florida hires a current college head coach (Florida likely will after Zook and Muschamp)

 

[dcon69]

It is not an age thing. It is a Grobe thing.