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Is it time to move on from Jim Grobe?

HONDO2 said:
I dunno how many of you watched the FSU game on ABC/ESPN.

Several times in the 3rd Q the broadcast crew went on at length on the classic LOWF angle....i.e., the school is so small ( the old graphic ), the stadium is so small ( again a graphic ), the academic rigors, recruiting AND how Grobe continues to work wonders blah, blah, blah and is the best option for Wake ( references to calls for a new direction/coach ). It was very orchestrated and frankly looked to be well planned in ADVANCE.
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I had the same thought.
 
I know my posts are few (lots of lurking, not much input), so they probably don't hold very much weight. However, we may wish to look @ a similar situation, although very different dynamics, that occurred @ UT. Fulmer had enjoyed success but was considered stagnant, stale, and fans were demanding change. That didn't work out so well...
I know the programs are totally different but Chavis seems to be working out ok at his new job as DC @ LSU, Brooks @ Clemson, etc. They all are still highly successful. We have a pretty good group of coaches @ Wake. Many are still quite hungry and are doing a good job on the recruiting trail considering the limitations they face recruiting to WFU.
Our defensive staff is much better than people give them credit for. There are a lot of pretty brilliant thinkers on that side of the ball.
The one major glaring issue is, has been, and must be addressed is the OC.
I can't for the life of me say fire Jim Grobe.
I also can't see how Lobo can be retained further.
If Grobe stays and can't get rid of or at the very least demote Lobo, then I am torn because we will just face more years of putrid offense....
I guess you could say I am too loyal to fire Grobe too:(
Love the man as a person and as a Coach. He has been great for Wake Forest!
 
liveanddiedeac said:
What should happen won't happen and that is for Ron Wellman to bring Jim Grobe into his office, show him the our pathetic offensive rankings from the past several seasons and tell him either Lobo goes or the whole staff goes.
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It sounds like you watch too many made-for-TV movies.
 
deputydeacon said:
Our defensive staff is much better than people give them credit for. There are a lot of pretty brilliant thinkers on that side of the ball.
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I think there may be some smart guys on the staff, I don't think Brian Knorr is a particularly great football mind by any means.
 
CHillDeac said:
Five straight losing seasons and he throws out a quote like this to ESPN: “I don’t think it’s a program thing, it’s just the way Wake Forest is always going to be,”

Definitely time for him to go.
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To me, this quote is a fireable offense. It would be for me if I said it at my job.
 
PhDeac said:
DC, you've disagreed with me on pretty much every post about the football program. I agree wholeheartedly with Townie's post. I assumed you fall on the other side.

My bad.
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Really? Are you referring to Townie's post that I quoted below? Because I've never read a comment from you that in any way resembles that. All your posts about Grobe have been the exact opposite and filled with unmitigated hate.

"He's far and away the best coach we've ever had. He took our program to previously unthinkable heights. He's indirectly responsible for the stadium upgrade, and directly responsible for some of the best sports moments I've ever been a part of. He's been a great ambassador for Wake Forest, and most players will tell you that he shapes boys into men, values education, and fosters character."
 
deputydeacon said:
I know my posts are few (lots of lurking, not much input), so they probably don't hold very much weight. However, we may wish to look @ a similar situation, although very different dynamics, that occurred @ UT. Fulmer had enjoyed success but was considered stagnant, stale, and fans were demanding change. That didn't work out so well...
I know the programs are totally different but Chavis seems to be working out ok at his new job as DC @ LSU, Brooks @ Clemson, etc. They all are still highly successful. We have a pretty good group of coaches @ Wake. Many are still quite hungry and are doing a good job on the recruiting trail considering the limitations they face recruiting to WFU.
Our defensive staff is much better than people give them credit for. There are a lot of pretty brilliant thinkers on that side of the ball.
The one major glaring issue is, has been, and must be addressed is the OC.
I can't for the life of me say fire Jim Grobe.
I also can't see how Lobo can be retained further.
If Grobe stays and can't get rid of or at the very least demote Lobo, then I am torn because we will just face more years of putrid offense....
I guess you could say I am too loyal to fire Grobe too:(
Love the man as a person and as a Coach. He has been great for Wake Forest!
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It wasn't the firing of Fulmer that was the problem. It was the hire that followed.

I'm not sure why that's such a hard concept for so many people here.
 
If that quote about how it is not the program but the university, then yes, Jim needs to go. I say this with a heavy heart but he should not be in a job where he no longer believes he can be successful.
 
My priority is fixing the basketball program. I want nothing to stand in the way of us being able to pony up the maximum amount of money that we can to replace Bz. Replacing the football coach will almost certainly reduce the amount we can offer our new basketball coach. So I would prefer to let Grobe hang on at least past this year and to the end of his contract if necessary.

I really respect the work Grobe has done for our program in the past. He raised expectations and proved that LOWF need not be the rule on the football field. But we are clearly on a downward trend with him. I don't think we'll challenge for our division again under his leadership and I have my doubts if we'll qualify for a bowl with him either.

ACC expansion however has set up his replacement quite nicely. Instead of facing one other private school in the conference, we are now locked into to facing three per year with BC, Syracuse and Duke. Set up the non-conference schedule properly with the Army's, Tulane's and Elon's of the world and becoming an annual bowl team is a real possibility.
 
VaDeac said:
It wasn't the firing of Fulmer that was the problem. It was the hire that followed.

I'm not sure why that's such a hard concept for so many people here.
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Plus, Fulmer had A LOT more consistent success than Grobe has had, even after adjusting for program expectations
 
RicoSuave said:
Really? Are you referring to Townie's post that I quoted below? Because I've never read a comment from you that in any way resembles that. All your posts about Grobe have been the exact opposite and filled with unmitigated hate.

"He's far and away the best coach we've ever had. He took our program to previously unthinkable heights. He's indirectly responsible for the stadium upgrade, and directly responsible for some of the best sports moments I've ever been a part of. He's been a great ambassador for Wake Forest, and most players will tell you that he shapes boys into men, values education, and fosters character."
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Could you tell me when I said Grobe wasn't the best coach we've had (wasn't around for Peahead so not counting him)?

How about when I said the OB wasn't an unthinkable height or that I didn't enjoy those sports moments?

When did I say he wasn't an ambassador for Wake or that he doesn't shape boys into men, value education, or foster character?

Use the search engine please.
 
VaDeac said:
It wasn't the firing of Fulmer that was the problem. It was the hire that followed.

I'm not sure why that's such a hard concept for so many people here.
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Whenever you make personnel changes, you have to consider your pool of potential replacements. Why is that such a hard concept? It was unreasonable for Tennessee fans to expect to be National Championship Contenders every year, and every established coach knew that and wasn't going to step into a no-win situation, so they hired they best they could find. The same with our basketball program when we fired Dino: what established coach would agree to coach at a program that just fired a man who led us to a #1 national ranking and consistent NCAA tournament appearances?

As a fan base, we can't be the "abusive spouse" and expect all the "pretty girls" to line up to marry us.
 
PhDeac said:
Could you tell me when I said Grobe wasn't the best coach we've had (wasn't around for Peahead so not counting him)?

How about when I said the OB wasn't an unthinkable height or that I didn't enjoy those sports moments?

When did I say he wasn't an ambassador for Wake or that he doesn't shape boys into men, value education, or foster character?

Use the search engine please.
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LOL You want me to prove a negative. Nice.

How about you giving us one example of something positive you ever said about Grobe (if possible)? Use the search engine please.
 
I want you to prove what you said. Just find a post where I said those things you said I said. Simple stuff.
 
RicoSuave said:
Whenever you make personnel changes, you have to consider your pool of potential replacements. Why is that such a hard concept? It was unreasonable for Tennessee fans to expect to be National Championship Contenders every year, and every established coach knew that and wasn't going to step into a no-win situation, so they hired they best they could find. The same with our basketball program when we fired Dino: what established coach would agree to coach at a program that just fired a man who led us to a #1 national ranking and consistent NCAA tournament appearances?

As a fan base, we can't be the "abusive spouse" and expect all the "pretty girls" to line up to marry us.
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Again, this isn't really an issue whatsoever. Coaches for the most part are pretty egotistical people who are very confident in their own abilities. Most of the time when someone is fired, coaches just believe they can do better, they don't really care about "oh man Dino got fired I definitely can't do that job."
 
What exactly do you want Rico? You have lots of complaints about people's complaints, but what are your actual thoughts.
 
I don't trust anyone associated with WFU athletics to hire someone better
 
PhDeac said:
I want you to prove what you said. Just find a post where I said those things you said I said. Simple stuff.
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You want me to prove that you never said anything positive about Grobe? You can't prove a negative. You never took Logic at Wake? Its pretty clear that you haven't said anything positive about Grobe, but out of fairness I'm giving you the opportunity to prove that you did.
 
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