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Israel Attacked and its Response

dartsndeacs said:
Ah , my bad, I read the graphic wrong. There does seem to be a quality of life difference between the West Bank and Gaza which likely can be directly attributable to Hamas. It's not as if Hamas has universal support there, so taking out Hamas is probably better for everyone in the long term.
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hamas needs to go, no question -- but many israeli leaders and holders of power have propped up hamas to serve their own political interests

but israel is operating an apartheid state

I tracked down this article that I read a couple years ago that really clarifies this fact: https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v43/n02/nathan-thrall/the-separate-regimes-delusion -- it is long and paywalled, but I can send a PDF to anyone interested

I see the author of the article has a book out that discusses daily life of a palestinian and the freedom of movement restricted by the israeli government: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250291530/adayinthelifeofabedsalama
 
avalon said:
Yes, that too. Also Pulse. It should make us think about what crazy shit we put up with here........ but it won't.
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We wouldn't put up with if the terrorists weren't more often than not conservative white American men.
 
I appreciate the discussion of this matter and the links that have been provided for further education and enlightenment.

People have been fighting wars and killing each other over this area of the world for thousands of years. Justice and morality have no part to play in this story. Death is death, regardless of the means by which it comes. Killing is killing no matter the form. All the major players in the current conflict worship the same deity, a deity that condems killing. It continues nevertheless. Israel won't achieve its goals until it possesses, occupies and controls the land between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean Sea. Arabs won't achieve their goals until they possess, occupy and control that identical piece of real estate. No compromise will settle this dispute and even if either party were to accomplish their objectives, the losing party will never accept it. The fact that the present combatants have been in conflict for the entirety of my life is the basis for my opinion.

I suspect Israel will attempt to reoccupy the Gaza strip. If it were in my power I would give the Palestinians a place to live they could call their own and live peaceably. It's not in my power and I haven't heard anybody, anywhere offer to do so. If the hostilities escalate (and they could) I hope they are confined to the Middle East. These are dangerous times and our world seems to lack leaders of temperance and sound judgement.
 
www.theguardian.com

Death is commonplace for Gaza’s lost generation

Growing up in the Palestinian enclave leaves the young numbed to the violence of their daily lives
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

“…Gaza’s leading child psychiatrist, Dr Abdel Aziz Mousa Thabet, was despairing of the consequences of the violence on young minds. He estimated that two-thirds of children were traumatised by violence with profound consequences on Gaza’s future.

“They become fighters. I warned about this 15 years ago, that in 15 years these traumatised children will be more aggressive, they will want to fight, there will be more violence in the community,” he said. “It’s a cycle of aggression.” “So now we will have another generation of more aggressive behaviour. They will go to more extremes because they have no future… It’s a cycle of aggression. Children see their parents killed in front of them. What do you expect?” That was in 2009 and the cycle has not been broken.”
 
This is a Canadian Psychologist and Addiction Specialist that me and my wife admire very much, we have a few of his books at home. He is also a child survivor of the Holocaust and former Zionist

 
BlackjackMc said:
I appreciate the discussion of this matter and the links that have been provided for further education and enlightenment.

People have been fighting wars and killing each other over this area of the world for thousands of years. Justice and morality have no part to play in this story. Death is death, regardless of the means by which it comes. Killing is killing no matter the form. All the major players in the current conflict worship the same deity, a deity that condems killing. It continues nevertheless. Israel won't achieve its goals until it possesses, occupies and controls the land between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean Sea. Arabs won't achieve their goals until they possess, occupy and control that identical piece of real estate. No compromise will settle this dispute and even if either party were to accomplish their objectives, the losing party will never accept it. The fact that the present combatants have been in conflict for the entirety of my life is the basis for my opinion.

I suspect Israel will attempt to reoccupy the Gaza strip. If it were in my power I would give the Palestinians a place to live they could call their own and live peaceably. It's not in my power and I haven't heard anybody, anywhere offer to do so. If the hostilities escalate (and they could) I hope they are confined to the Middle East. These are dangerous times and our world seems to lack leaders of temperance and sound judgement.
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Very well put - my (very simplistic) understanding of the base issue at hand that will keep causing problems is that both feel they have the right to the Holy Land and the space that they currently live in (I am sure that Palestinians would prefer that it was not an open-air prison). While actually allowing Palestine to be reestablished as a nation, I don't think they would accept it because it's not the land they want.

Please correct me if I'm wrong there, but that's my understanding of why this has drawn out for so long, and that solution, while very reasonable, probably wouldn't last.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
While actually allowing Palestine to be reestablished as a nation, I don't think they would accept it because it's not the land they want.
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Correct. Various proposals over the years have collapsed, in part, because of this.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Very well put - my (very simplistic) understanding of the base issue at hand that will keep causing problems is that both feel they have the right to the Holy Land and the space that they currently live in (I am sure that Palestinians would prefer that it was not an open-air prison). While actually allowing Palestine to be reestablished as a nation, I don't think they would accept it because it's not the land they want.

Please correct me if I'm wrong there, but that's my understanding of why this has drawn out for so long, and that solution, while very reasonable, probably wouldn't last.
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Well I mean for the Arabs it’s only like the 3rd holiest site so they just need to drop it
 
just read the wakelaw and DCDeac posts

glad they chimed in

if I posted anything that seemed confident about any of this i apologize

i don't really know what's happening over there - just what i read

same with the historical and affective histories that motivate this conflict - i haven't lived it

i'm just trying to make sense of a war that I don't want to happen
 
Kory said:
mdmh i don't wanna watch your jordan peterson videos
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I know you were kidding but Dr. Gabor Mate couldn’t be further from a Jordan Peterson, he’s extraordinarily kind and empathetic. His work is instrumental in demonstrating the importance of compassion in modern addiction counseling.
 
Like from a danger standpoint, or what it shows to the world as far as where the USA aligns/where they stand on this with their military force and money (which I believe is the point)?
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Very well put - my (very simplistic) understanding of the base issue at hand that will keep causing problems is that both feel they have the right to the Holy Land and the space that they currently live in (I am sure that Palestinians would prefer that it was not an open-air prison). While actually allowing Palestine to be reestablished as a nation, I don't think they would accept it because it's not the land they want.

Please correct me if I'm wrong there, but that's my understanding of why this has drawn out for so long, and that solution, while very reasonable, probably wouldn't last.
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We really just need #science to weigh in on this. Whoops, sorry, this is not your Holy Land. We were wrong for thousands of years, your Holy Land has been recently factually discovered to be located in the gorgeous Wuhan province, and we will help finance you on your pilgrimage there. It is filled with clean fresh air, drinkable water, glorious open air food markets, and friendly animals of all shapes and sizes.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
We really just need #science to weigh in on this. Whoops, sorry, this is not your Holy Land. We were wrong for thousands of years, your Holy Land has been recently factually discovered to be located in the gorgeous Wuhan province, and we will help finance you on your pilgrimage there. It is filled with clean fresh air, drinkable water, glorious open air food markets, and friendly animals of all shapes and sizes.
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Why are you the way that you are?
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
We really just need #science to weigh in on this. Whoops, sorry, this is not your Holy Land. We were wrong for thousands of years, your Holy Land has been recently factually discovered to be located in the gorgeous Wuhan province, and we will help finance you on your pilgrimage there. It is filled with clean fresh air, drinkable water, glorious open air food markets, and friendly animals of all shapes and sizes.
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This reminds me of the South Park scene where all the major religious groups find themselves in Hell and are informed that the Mormons had it right and are the only group going to heaven.
 
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