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Joy Reid : exhibit A of D’s strongest trait, Hypocrisy

MHBDemon said:
ugghhh. anything to take the blame off democrats.

So you are arguing that you fight Trump with centrism. I am arguing the opposite. People that are enraged by Trump, but were not enraged by the poverty, mass incarceration and endless war that preceded him, come from a place of privilege walled off from the impacts of a Trump administration. So their politics always converge on a centrist platform that cares more about winning back power than it does providing single-payer or abolishing the PIC or actually desegregating schools and neighborhoods.
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I'm not a centrist, nor am I arguing that you fight Trump with centrism. You can't do anything if you don't win, and you don't win by blaming the "democrats" and not voting for them. You do whatever it takes to make sure people like Trump do not win again and do more irreparable damage (even if you think it is the lesser of two evils) and you make better democrats, which is starting to happen and which I fully support. You don't vote for Trump or take your fucking ball and go home, and then try to take credit for protesting the thing you helped create.
 
Shooshmoo said:
I'm not a centrist, nor am I arguing that you fight Trump with centrism. You can't do anything if you don't win, and you don't win by blaming the "democrats" and not voting for them. You do whatever it takes to make sure people like Trump do not win again and do more irreparable damage (even if you think it is the lesser of two evils) and you make better democrats, which is starting to happen and which I fully support. You don't vote for Trump or take your fucking ball and go home, and then try to take credit for protesting the thing you helped create.
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I'm amazed you can dress yourself with that level of brain malfunction. Understand that it's idiotic of you to believe that the most politically active liberal progressives didn't vote. "Take your ball and go home" who the fuck are you talking about?
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I'm amazed you can dress yourself with that level of brain malfunction. Understand that it's idiotic of you to believe that the most politically active liberal progressives didn't vote. "Take your ball and go home" who the fuck are you talking about?
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C'mon man. I don't think they didn't vote -- get to the next level. Get woke, bruh.
 
get woke = having to vote for a Clinton?

"c'mon bruh"
 
Shooshmoo said:
No, it means that taking your ball and going home also means throwing away your vote on Bernie or Stein in the GE and helping to elect Trump.
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IMO, that is essentially a centrist position. If I don't have any agency with my vote, then how does anyone hold democrats accountable for decades of shitty neoliberal politics?
 
So you are essentially blaming an oppressed portion of the electorate for not voting, rather than blaming the political party that at best is complicit in that oppression, and at worst, openly participates in that oppression.
 
MHBDemon said:
IMO, that is essentially a centrist position. If I don't have any agency with my vote, then how does anyone hold democrats accountable for decades of shitty neoliberal politics?
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By nominating and electing better democrats. Certainly not by electing Trump.
 
MHBDemon said:
So you are essentially blaming an oppressed portion of the electorate for not voting, rather than blaming the political party that at best is complicit in that oppression, and at worst, openly participates in that oppression.
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MHBDemon said:
So you are essentially blaming an oppressed portion of the electorate for not voting, rather than blaming the political party that at best is complicit in that oppression, and at worst, openly participates in that oppression.
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No, I am blaming individuals who made a conscious decision to not vote, vote for the Donald, or vote for somebody other than Hillary knowing full well that their vote could result in Trump winning, which, if they were oppressed, is akin to taking a pair of scissors and slowly cutting your own shaft off.
 
 
That's great. Keep respecting that agency while the oppressed (likely not you) keep suffering. I've never told a black person who to vote for, but there's a reason only 8% of them voted for Trump. But you and Chance keep telling them about their agency and how important it is.
 
PhDeac said:
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Because some people, rightly, don't view voting for democrats as a path to freeing them from their oppression. So its really shitty to blame them for not voting, rather than blame the institutions that participate in that oppression.
 
MHBDemon said:
Because some people, rightly, don't view voting for democrats as a path to freeing them from their oppression. So its really shitty to blame them for not voting, rather than blame the institutions that participate in that oppression.
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Not voting gets you even worse institutions and prevents you from having the power to address the problem.
 
Shooshmoo said:
That's great. Keep respecting that agency while the oppressed (likely not you) keep suffering. I've never told a black person who to vote for, but there's a reason only 8% of them voted for Trump. But you and Chance keep telling them about their agency and how important it is.
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It almost sounds like you don't respect their agency.
 
MHBDemon said:
It almost sounds like you don't respect their agency.
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I don't even know what that means. Anyone can vote for whomever they want, or not vote, or be prevented from voting at all by racist voter id laws implemented by Republicans who were helped into their positions by woke, unoppressed white dudes who graduated from tier one colleges and voted for a third party candidate who got 3% of the vote.
 
Shooshmoo said:
I don't even know what that means. Anyone can vote for whomever they want, or not vote, or be prevented from voting at all by racist voter id laws implemented by Republicans who were helped into their positions by woke, unoppressed white dudes who graduated from tier one colleges and voted for a third party candidate who got 3% of the vote.
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Ah yes, the only racist things in this country are because of republicans. Meanwhile, democrats are gentrifying neighborhoods and funding police and prisons and instituting mandatory minimums and giving out tax breaks to Bezos and sending their kids to charter schools and criminalizing sex workers, and on and on.
 
MHBDemon said:
Ah yes, the only racist things in this country are because of republicans. Meanwhile, democrats are gentrifying neighborhoods and funding police and prisons and instituting mandatory minimums and giving out tax breaks to Bezos and sending their kids to charter schools and criminalizing sex workers, and on and on.
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Ok. We deserve where we are.
 
Shooshmoo said:
Ok. We deserve where we are.
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There are historically determined reasons why AA and minorities at large are fiercely loyal and trusting of the Democratic status quo, but it's very conniving and abusive for insulated, privileged liberals to waste that trust. We allow the Democratic party to forfeit platform idealogy for the sake of partisan gamesmanship.

The demands of conservatives and disenfranchised poor/minorities are fundamentally at odds. The Democratic party for too long has feebly attempted to serve two masters.

https://jacobinmag.com/2018/04/deficit-budgets-spending-democrats-republicans

"...Attempting to balance a commitment to deficit reduction alongside a theoretical responsibility to protect and expand public programs, Democrats end up imposing false limitations on themselves and neutering their own supposed political agenda. One wonders if the party, increasingly reliant on an elite capitalist donor class, is actually using deficit reduction to weasel out of the responsibility to make life better for the working-class majority of their constituency. The GOP inevitably spends every penny the Democrats save; the difference is that they spend it advancing right-wing policies, not left-wing ones, and lining the pockets of the rich, not the rest of us. The Republicans may be hypocrites, but the Democrats are either suckers or they’re throwing the game."

"In 2002, Dick Cheney went a step further and admitted that deficits are a non-issue, famously saying that “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter.”
 
You can't honestly sit here and say in 2018 that progressivism itself is unpopular. The DNC successfully ran a candidate, in Alabama, who
1. Legally opposed the KKK
2. Is openly Pro-life
3. Is openly pro-same sex marraige.

The notion that an isolationist and/or economically populist agenda would have been more unpopular or divisive than abortion, gay marriage, and racial equality, in ALABAMA is ludicrous. The Democratic establishment isn't pragmatic or moderate - they are fiscally conservative and steered by the corporate donor class. Corporate donors who are as flaming liberal as could be, on social issues.
 
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