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Law School is a sham

BacktoBack said:
#GoCamels!

The law school at Campbell is solid. It's not in the same category as some of the other, higher rated, in state schools. It's nowhere close to Charlotte Law either. From what I'm told, the move to Raleigh seems to have helped things considerably.
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100% agree with this post. A lot of the best lawyers I know, especially in certain practice areas, are Campbell grads.


I think the real take away is that NO law school is an "obvious choice" and students should think long and hard about choosing any school. Too many students think the opposite, however, and just head on to law school without knowing anything about the real prospects, the cost, etc.
 
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PhDeac said:
Are there any medical schools with the same business plan as Charlotte Law and others?
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There are some sketchy med schools in the caribbean with terrible board passage rates. Not sure about their business plans, but they can be super pricey.
 
Just to throw this out there- the ABA reports that Charlotte had 350 graduates in the class of 2013 and 129 of them are received Full-time, Bar Passage Required positions (this would include folks who went solo)) and 61 in positions where a JD was an advantage (includes any job where "a J.D. provides a demonstrable advantage in obtaining or performing the job." The ABA goes on to say that "jobs in personnel or human resources, jobs doing compliance work, admissions offices" are all included in that category.

Average debt load- $135,466

Florida Coastal has an overall median starting salary (for legal jobs) of around $40k and an average debt load of $150,360
 
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bojanglefunk said:
Just to throw this out there- the ABA reports that Charlotte had 350 graduates in the class of 2013 and 129 of them are received Full-time, Bar Passage Required positions (this would include folks who went solo)) and 61 in positions where a JD was an advantage (includes any job where "a J.D. provides a demonstrable advantage in obtaining or performing the job." The ABA goes on to say that "jobs in personnel or human resources, jobs doing compliance work, admissions offices" are all included in that category.

Average debt load- $135,466

Florida Coastal has an overall median starting salary (for legal jobs) of around $40k and an average debt load of $150,360
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Prediction: legal malpractice will become the new med-mal/PI industry in the Charlotte area
 
bojanglefunk said:
100% agree with this post. A lot of the best lawyers I know, especially in certain practice areas, are Campbell grads.


I think the real take away is that NO law school is an "obvious choice" and students should think long and hard about choosing any school. Too many students think the opposite, however, and just head on to law school without knowing anything about the real prospects, the cost, etc.
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I think Florida Coastal and Charlotte are pretty obvious choices.

Don't. Go.
 
I mean med school has the board exams which are actually difficult

Not the bar exam which donks pass all the time
 
Maybe I should start a shitty for profit bizness school doe
 
bojanglefunk said:
Just to throw this out there- the ABA reports that Charlotte had 350 graduates in the class of 2013 and 129 of them are received Full-time, Bar Passage Required positions (this would include folks who went solo)) and 61 in positions where a JD was an advantage (includes any job where "a J.D. provides a demonstrable advantage in obtaining or performing the job." The ABA goes on to say that "jobs in personnel or human resources, jobs doing compliance work, admissions offices" are all included in that category.

Average debt load- $135,466

Florida Coastal has an overall median starting salary (for legal jobs) of around $40k and an average debt load of $150,360
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Charlotte Law pays non-profit law firms to hire their graduates for 6 months. They'll even rent out additional space and upfit it if your office can't handle the additional people. Since the attorneys don't start working until September, Charlotte Law can say they're employed full time in a job that requires a JD 9 months after graduation. Granted, this is actually a great way to get real experience and make money if you don't have a job, however, it's definitely cooking the books.
 
PhDeac said:
Are there any medical schools with the same business plan as Charlotte Law and others?
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Pretty much every DO school and Caribbean medical school.
There is a reason a traditional MD doesn't feel the typical DO is on par. The MCAT scores and GPA's of the DO's is our equivalent of Charlotte Law. And the price tags are huge. I'm tied up at the moment but look at the tuition and fees at a local DO school and see what it reveals. I'd wager ~ $55k a year average
 
BacktoBack said:
Pretty much every DO school and Caribbean medical school.
There is a reason a traditional MD doesn't feel the typical DO is on par. The MCAT scores and GPA's of the DO's is our equivalent of Charlotte Law. And the price tags are huge. I'm tied up at the moment but look at the tuition and fees at a local DO school and see what it reveals. I'd wager ~ $55k a year average
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Right but it's not even the same ballpark in terms of ROI or finding jobs.
 
JerseyDeac said:
Charlotte Law pays non-profit law firms to hire their graduates for 6 months. They'll even rent out additional space and upfit it if your office can't handle the additional people. Since the attorneys don't start working until September, Charlotte Law can say they're employed full time in a job that requires a JD 9 months after graduation. Granted, this is actually a great way to get real experience and make money if you don't have a job, however, it's definitely cooking the books.
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Damn. That makes those numbers even worse. They were terrible even with that.
 
Closest one to me right now is Edward Via COM in Blacksburg VA so I searched their stuff. They budget for tuition/fees and living expense of ~ $75k a year x 4 years = $300,000 in debt before even starting residency. Then 3 + years of residecy where you make payments or interest accrues. Finally, most DO's aren't obtaining residency in the high end specialties where paying back $300k + is reasonable. The typical family doctor making 125-150K a year can hardly afford 300K in loans. There is SIGNIFICANTLY less oversight in accreditation of the DO schools versus the MD schools and hence the relative lack of new MD schools and TONS of new DO schools.
 
BacktoBack said:
Closest one to me right now is Edward Via COM in Blacksburg VA so I searched their stuff. They budget for tuition/fees and living expense of ~ $75k a year x 4 years = $300,000 in debt before even starting residency. Then 3 + years of residecy where you make payments or interest accrues. Finally, most DO's aren't obtaining residency in the high end specialties where paying back $300k + is reasonable. The typical family doctor making 125-150K a year can hardly afford 300K in loans. There is SIGNIFICANTLY less oversight in accreditation of the DO schools versus the MD schools and hence the relative lack of new MD schools and TONS of new DO schools.
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Excuse my ignorance - but are there traditional med schools that have DO programs?
 
Do you mean can the same place do both types of training?

Not as far as I know (though DO's can be accepted to MD residency, but it is almost non existent in most specialties).

Most MD schools are affiliated with larger universities (i.e. Wake Forest, UNC, Duke, ECU, etc) But more and more a lot of the DO schools are free standing for profit enterprises.
 
Aren't most hospitals nonprofit? 10 years paying 10% of income under the income contingent plan and poof that 300k is gone? The bigger issue is when forgiveness starts happening in a few years and a poor teacher gets hit with a 80k tax bill
 
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