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Let's say Lobo takes a HC gig...

ChrisL68 said:
Nice rant. Completely devoid of reality but passionate. You do realize we were 14 and 17 point dogs in our last two games?
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You do realize continuously pointing out what "should" have happened based on what other people estimate is a cop out?

I really couldn't give two flying shits if we were supposed to lose by 157 and 541....we had opportunities to put BOTH games out of reach, and win BOTH games when it counted....

We lost BOTH games in the second half or 4th quarter after leading.

We were obviously not 2+ TD's worse than either team, and we should have beaten both based on where we were IN THE GAME....you know, based on what actually happened on the field, and not what random prognosticators who focus only on their assessment of what has happened or how teams should play.

THAT is what I am basing my opinion/argument on...what ACTUALLY HAPPENED ON THE FIELD and not what should have been or what we were supposed to expect....

Leading by 2 TD's going into the 4th quarter and losing the game, with 2-3 chances to drive to win the game late is nothing but 100% failure of the coaching staff....whether Superawesome Footballgeniusman estimated that we should have lost by 17 or not....

Estimations and lines go out the window once the game actually starts....and apparently so does our coaching once the second half starts.
 
We weren't leading by 2 TDs going into the 4th quarter. We scored to go up two TDs with 5 minutes left in the 3rd quarter and Clemson immediately drove down the field and cut it to 7 with about a minute left in the 3rd quarter. Again this goes back to the talent issues on defense. We usually aren't good enough to get key stops in situations like this. Our defense is built around making teams work to get lots of yards and taking advantage of their mistakes. We don't have the talent to play a pressure defense. This is a problem if our opponents are executing on offense.

We had a chance to hold on but we didn't make enough plays and stops late in the game. A primary reason for that was because Clemson is more talented on both sides of the ball than we are and made more plays in crunch time.
 
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Honestly, I want to hear what people want us to do.

I keep hearing "It's not Grobe, it's not Grobe," and then that person turns around and says "but somebody has to be held accountable." It just seems to me that those two aren't logically consistent. Almost as dumb as those that say "I'm glad he keeps us in the game, but he makes 3 million dollars (not true), so he has to do something to fix it."

Fire away, I want to hear realistic solutions, because it seems like most here are not content with being competitive in most games. Since 2002 we are 27-28 in games decided by a TD or less. I would guess that this pretty standard for most teams, and is consistent with the rest of our record during that time. People just remember the losses more because they hurt more.

Yes they suck, but people honestly need to just calm down and rationally think before they post inane things over and over again.
 
What would you consider realistic solutions? People have been posting plenty of things Grobe could do to improve time management issues, etc.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Honestly, I want to hear what people want us to do.

I keep hearing "It's not Grobe, it's not Grobe," and then that person turns around and says "but somebody has to be held accountable." It just seems to me that those two aren't logically consistent. Almost as dumb as those that say "I'm glad he keeps us in the game, but he makes 3 million dollars (not true), so he has to do something to fix it."

Fire away, I want to hear realistic solutions, because it seems like most here are not content with being competitive in most games. Since 2002 we are 27-28 in games decided by a TD or less. I would guess that this pretty standard for most teams, and is consistent with the rest of our record during that time. People just remember the losses more because they hurt more.

Yes they suck, but people honestly need to just calm down and rationally think before they post inane things over and over again.
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I have said this on more than one occasion recently....I would never demand getting rid of Jim Grobe...

If at some point someone had the balls to tell him he needs to make some sort of change within his staff to get over the hump of losing games late that we should most definitely win based on the way the games had been played up to that point, then that's fine, I wouldn't be against that.

I do not think our current staff maximizes the effort and abilities of our players...I do not think our current staff can finish games that they should be able to finish. I think a change within the staff, particularly with positions that have been constant for most of Jim Grobe's tenure, could take this team to the next level.

I refuse to believe that our players have the ability to go up 2 TD's on the #9 team in the country, but magically lose the ability to make the plays necessary to hold them off.

And why is it "not true" that JG makes $3mill?...there have been plenty of estimations of Grobe's salary, and I'm pretty sure he had the 2nd highest base salary of any ACC coach, and that with incentives probably was near the top of the ACC, if not the country.
 
OblongPickle said:
I have said this on more than one occasion recently....I would never demand getting rid of Jim Grobe...

If at some point someone had the balls to tell him he needs to make some sort of change within his staff to get over the hump of losing games late that we should most definitely win based on the way the games had been played up to that point, then that's fine, I wouldn't be against that.

I do not think our current staff maximizes the effort and abilities of our players...I do not think our current staff can finish games that they should be able to finish. I think a change within the staff, particularly with positions that have been constant for most of Jim Grobe's tenure, could take this team to the next level.

I refuse to believe that our players have the ability to go up 2 TD's on the #9 team in the country, but magically lose the ability to make the plays necessary to hold them off.

And why is it "not true" that JG makes $3mill?...there have been plenty of estimations of Grobe's salary, and I'm pretty sure he had the 2nd highest base salary of any ACC coach, and that with incentives probably was near the top of the ACC, if not the country.
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If you don't believe this, then how can you stand for the head coach to still be here. Isn't it his job to get the best out of his players? If we hire a new OC, we aren't going to just go out and get a coach that is aggressive. We will get one that fits into the same conservative game plan that Coach Grobe wants to run.

Also, it's not that we "magically lose the ability to make plays,"...the other team plays better and wears us down. This year makes that point very well. our defense is good at forcing turnovers and making teams drive for long amounts of time, but when it gets late in the game, we don't have the depth to keep a team from driving on us pretty efficiently when they want to, especially one as good as Clemson.
 
Clemson wasn't that good on Saturday.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
If you don't believe this, then how can you stand for the head coach to still be here. Isn't it his job to get the best out of his players? If we hire a new OC, we aren't going to just go out and get a coach that is aggressive. We will get one that fits into the same conservative game plan that Coach Grobe wants to run.

Also, it's not that we "magically lose the ability to make plays,"...the other team plays better and wears us down. This year makes that point very well. our defense is good at forcing turnovers and making teams drive for long amounts of time, but when it gets late in the game, we don't have the depth to keep a team from driving on us pretty efficiently when they want to, especially one as good as Clemson.
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That is his job...but as the head of our program, his removal would be last on the list of potential program-saving moves

I would like to see a different OC get a chance before it becomes time to go with an entirely new staff.

And I'm not sure our AD could select a HC that could keep us from backsliding to repetitive 3 win seasons.




I think Wake has proven we can be competitive as a football team...I think we can get lucky and win games we shouldn't and get unlucky and lose games we shouldn't....but I think our playcalling has lost us games that has nothing to do with luck or being an "inferior" team.

Being oh-so-close to beating teams that are supposedly much better than us, and losing time after time just makes me think that it goes beyond luck and that something is preventing us from holding on to those wins...the only real constant is our staff...

We either wait until it's too late and clean house...or we try to mix it up BEFORE it's too late.

If someone can find any other HC that has only changed staff when they decided to leave on their own, I'd like to hear about it....that is pretty unusual to me.
 
OblongPickle said:
That is his job...but as the head of our program, his removal would be last on the list of potential program-saving moves

I would like to see a different OC get a chance before it becomes time to go with an entirely new staff.

And I'm not sure our AD could select a HC that could keep us from backsliding to repetitive 3 win seasons.




I think Wake has proven we can be competitive as a football team...I think we can get lucky and win games we shouldn't and get unlucky and lose games we shouldn't....but I think our playcalling has lost us games that has nothing to do with luck or being an "inferior" team.

Being oh-so-close to beating teams that are supposedly much better than us, and losing time after time just makes me think that it goes beyond luck and that something is preventing us from holding on to those wins...the only real constant is our staff...

We either wait until it's too late and clean house...or we try to mix it up BEFORE it's too late.

If someone can find any other HC that has only changed staff when they decided to leave on their own, I'd like to hear about it....that is pretty unusual to me.
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I've already quoted the stats from earlier...we are 27-28 since 2002 in games that are decided by one possession or less. Every team loses to teams that better than them...that's how it works. People just remember losses more than they remember the wins. If you want to claim that there is something holding us back from those wins, then you have to say that we must be doing something right to win nearly as many games as we have lost over that same time span.

I understand why you feel that way, and it is a common feeling, but once you take a step back and look at the stats, it makes sense. We are not the only team that is undergoing a .500 record in games decided by a possession or less.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I've already quoted the stats from earlier...we are 27-28 since 2002 in games that are decided by one possession or less. Every team loses to teams that better than them...that's how it works. People just remember losses more than they remember the wins. If you want to claim that there is something holding us back from those wins, then you have to say that we must be doing something right to win nearly as many games as we have lost over that same time span.

I understand why you feel that way, and it is a common feeling, but once you take a step back and look at the stats, it makes sense. We are not the only team that is undergoing a .500 record in games decided by a possession or less.
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What was the margin at the end of the 3rd quarter in those games? That stat alone doesn't say much. It could also be that we have a tough time putting away games and have let too many teams back into games which is one of the problem areas over the Grobe era.
 
I think the last few minutes of the Clemson games saved Wake from looking for a new coach. If we had gone to the ACC championship game this year after winning 3 games last year, Grobe and staff would have moved up the coast to clean up the mess Joepa left at Penn St.
 
PhDeac said:
What was the margin at the end of the 3rd quarter in those games? That stat alone doesn't say much. It could also be that we have a tough time putting away games and have let too many teams back into games which is one of the problem areas over the Grobe era.
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No idea, but you can continue to nitpick at the stats all you want to. The stat alone says everything. Of course we have let teams back into games, but we have also come back and won games that we trailed by 7-10 points too.
 
We have probably had more leads in 3rd quarters of games we are 10 plus point dogs than most teams out there.

If you take Wake out of the occasion and you see a 17 point dog have a 14 point 3rd quarter lead, what do you think is the most likely scenario?

That the favorite still has a good chance of winning but will almost certainly make it a tight game?
 
Deacsfan27 said:
No idea, but you can continue to nitpick at the stats all you want to. The stat alone says everything. Of course we have let teams back into games, but we have also come back and won games that we trailed by 7-10 points too.
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No, the stat alone doesn't say everything. That's why it's a poor stat by itself. Instead of assuming, just look up our record by point margin at the end of the 3rd quarter.
 
PhDeac said:
No, the stat alone doesn't say everything. That's why it's a poor stat by itself. Instead of assuming, just look up our record by point margin at the end of the 3rd quarter.
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Or you could look it up.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Or you could look it up.
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Or you could look it up since you're the one making the argument. I just wish people would use statistics that actually make their point instead of making a point and finding misleading statistics.
 
PhDeac said:
Or you could look it up since you're the one making the argument. I just wish people would use statistics that actually make their point instead of making a point and finding misleading statistics.
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It's not a misleading statistic at all. Out of 55 games that have been decided by 7 points or less, we have won 27 and lost 28. That is as close to .500 as you can get without actually being .500. Out of those 55 I have good faith that they will also fall along the .500 mark with regards to who was leading after the 3rd quarter...it's going to take quite a while to look up those numbers.

I wish people that disagree with my statistics would look up the statistics they want to find to disprove the original point instead of just saying that the statistics that I put out there are misleading.
 
Of course it's a misleading stat because it doesn't explain how the margin got to be 7 points or less. It doesn't say that Wake is .500 in close games. It says Wake is .500 in games that ended close. Big difference. Just do the math before you try to make a point you're unprepared to make.
 
Ph is right. And he would know since he often does the same thing.
 
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