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Marcus Smart shoves fan

Reminds me of the scene in Friday Night Lights when Billy Bob Thornton is at a dinner and they're trying to convince him to play Boobie Miles both ways but he's worried about injuries.

And one of the wives pops in with, "That big ol' n***** ain't gonna break."
 
KidA23 said:
I'd also be interested in what TT specifically asked the nearby fans. The official statement reads (in part): "Texas Tech interviewed Mr. Orr along with numerous fans, photographers and arena personnel that were seated in the area surrounding him. Mr. Orr vehemently denied the accusation that he used a racial slur and no one in the vicinity of Mr. Orr heard such a slur."

Either the person asking the questions or the fans answering the questions could easily have interpreted "a racial slur" quite narrowly to mean the N word and only the N word.
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You can bet if the photo journalists sitting court side had heard a racial slur they would have said so. I don't know what was said any more than anyone else. However, of the hundreds of people that would have heard Orr yelling a racial slur no one...not one single person has come forward. All the evidence that we have points to him not shouting a racial slur. At this point the only "proof" we have are conjectures and conspiracy theories.
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
You can bet if the photo journalists sitting court side had heard a racial slur they would have said so. I don't know what was said any more than anyone else. However, of the hundreds of people that would have heard Orr yelling a racial slur no one...not one single person has come forward. All the evidence that we have points to him not shouting a racial slur. At this point the only "proof" we have are conjectures and conspiracy theories.
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Yeah, but still.
 
The rush to condemn in this matter has been amusing.
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
You can bet if the photo journalists sitting court side had heard a racial slur they would have said so. I don't know what was said any more than anyone else. However, of the hundreds of people that would have heard Orr yelling a racial slur no one...not one single person has come forward. All the evidence that we have points to him not shouting a racial slur. At this point the only "proof" we have are conjectures and conspiracy theories.
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Gah. It's so much more fun to make up stuff, though.
 
SkinsNDeacs said:
You can bet if the photo journalists sitting court side had heard a racial slur they would have said so. I don't know what was said any more than anyone else. However, of the hundreds of people that would have heard Orr yelling a racial slur no one...not one single person has come forward. All the evidence that we have points to him not shouting a racial slur. At this point the only "proof" we have are conjectures and conspiracy theories.
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We have as much proof that he said something racist as we do that he didn't say something racist.

The "evidence" that's been cited on this thread - from Orr's, frankly, weird post-incident comments and past behavior/reputation to what we can actually infer based on all of the videos posted here - doesn't prove anything one way or another. It does, however, show that that certain people on the board would rather side with the slovenly middle-aged Texas Tech superfan who lives for watching bad basketball and trolling teenagers rather than one of the real good guys in college basketball. Regardless of what comes out about this incident, I think that's a really important takeaway.
 
Strickland33 said:
We have as much proof that he said something racist as we do that he didn't say something racist.

The "evidence" that's been cited on this thread - from Orr's, frankly, weird post-incident comments and past behavior/reputation to what we can actually infer based on all of the videos posted here - doesn't prove anything one way or another. It does, however, show that that certain people on the board would rather side with the slovenly middle-aged Texas Tech superfan who lives for watching bad basketball and trolling teenagers rather than one of the real good guys in college basketball. Regardless of what comes out about this incident, I think that's a really important takeaway.
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I agree that Orr has failed to prove the negative. I disagree that that's a fair thing to ask him to do. Had to be 100 people within earshot, and nobody heard a racial epithet live (except the aggressor)? Nobody?
 
jhmd2000 said:
I agree that Orr has failed to prove the negative. I disagree that that's a fair thing to ask him to do. Had to be 100 people within earshot, and nobody heard a racial epithet live (except the aggressor)? Nobody?
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Whether he has to prove the negative or the positive is a matter of position, and you know it. I tend to side with a 19-year-old with a spotless record over the slovenly middle aged Texas Tech super fan with a documented history of vulgar and aggressive interactions with players. But that's just me.

If the Texas Tech athletic department is a less competent and more Texas version of what we're dealing with (or, if Doug Gottlieb's or other "journalistic" accounts are any indication), then I can only imagine what their investigation looked like...
 
Strickland33 said:
Whether he has to prove the negative or the positive is a matter of position, and you know it. I tend to side with a 19-year-old with a spotless record over the slovenly middle aged Texas Tech super fan with a documented history of vulgar and aggressive interactions with players. But that's just me.

If the Texas Tech athletic department is a less competent and more Texas version of what we're dealing with (or, if Doug Gottlieb's or other "journalistic" accounts are any indication), then I can only imagine what their investigation looked like...
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Yeah, because you come from a place of zero bias. Come on dude, the burden of proof is on the person who pushed the other guy. It always is.

What are you even talking about?
 
BillBrasky said:
Yeah, because you come from a place of zero bias. Come on dude, the burden of proof is on the person who pushed the other guy. It always is.

What are you even talking about?
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There's a big difference between the court of public opinion and the court of law. This "case" is being tried in the former. The questions are a) whether Smart was provoked by Orr, b) whether that provocation was more than "you piece of crap," and c) whether the provocation involved a racial slur of some sort.

Unless you think that Smart is the second coming of Stephen Jackson (or don't believe Orr's "apology"), then we know that Orr provoked Smart. I haven't seen any convincing evidence to disprove b) and there's simply no evidence (for either position) to speak conclusively about c).

I REALLY don't trust Texas Tech's AD's investigating (seriously?) and the examples of "journalism" in the follow up on this (i.e. Gottlieb texting Orr to ask if he said anything or asking Texas Tech's AD about it) leaves much to be desired; I just don't see how it's unreasonable to assume that Orr said some shit that was either way out of line and/or involving a racial slur.

Some people give the benefit of the doubt to a slovenly middle aged Texas tech super fan with a documented history of vulgar and aggressive interactions with players; some people choose to give a 19 year old with a spotless record the benefit of the doubt.
 
Strickland33 said:
Whether he has to prove the negative or the positive is a matter of position, and you know it. I tend to side with a 19-year-old with a spotless record over the slovenly middle aged Texas Tech super fan with a documented history of vulgar and aggressive interactions with players. But that's just me.

If the Texas Tech athletic department is a less competent and more Texas version of what we're dealing with (or, if Doug Gottlieb's or other "journalistic" accounts are any indication), then I can only imagine what their investigation looked like...
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I might too if that "spotless" Marcus Smart. It doesn't though, since Marcus's temper got the better of him in a different incident a mere three weeks ago. Let's ask Marcus if his record is spotless...Tweet from January 25:

marcus smart @smart_MS3
"Today wasn't one of my most proudest moments I lost my composure and left my team hanging it won't happen again and I apologize to my team"

That prior incident was when Smart picked up a foul, and walked over the bench to kick a chair in frustration . Sure, the chair might have called him a name, but I don't know if the chair was slovenly and/or middle aged (code, much?). I'm not willing to conclude that the chair must have called him a name, based solely on the degree of the reaction of the aggressor.

You say it's a young man with a spotless (not spotless) record against a superfan. Someone else could say it's a teenager with a temper problem late on the road in a third straight losing effort, caught up in the heat of battle. What nobody else has said is that they heard the same thing that Smart alleged (at least prior to the audio coming out). If what we're left with is "Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence," then that reasoning puts you in fine company. But I'm not sure its just cause to label someone you don't know a racist. Maybe he's just a Texas Tech fan with a bulldog mouth and a very poor impulse control.

Proving that you didn't do something is always being asked to prove a negative, no matter how you look at it.

I honestly don't know what happened, but I am surprised at the number of people who are convinced (based on dubious evidentiary underpinnings, extrapolations and stereotyping that they often proudly speak against in most other contexts) they know that he must happened that weren't there themselves.
 
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Strickland33 said:
There's a big difference between the court of public opinion and the court of law. This "case" is being tried in the former. The questions are a) whether Smart was provoked by Orr, b) whether that provocation was more than "you piece of crap," and c) whether the provocation involved a racial slur of some sort.

Unless you think that Smart is the second coming of Stephen Jackson (or don't believe Orr's "apology"), then we know that Orr provoked Smart. I haven't seen any convincing evidence to disprove b) and there's simply no evidence (for either position) to speak conclusively about c).

I REALLY don't trust Texas Tech's AD's investigating (seriously?) and the examples of "journalism" in the follow up on this (i.e. Gottlieb texting Orr to ask if he said anything or asking Texas Tech's AD about it) leaves much to be desired; I just don't see how it's unreasonable to assume that Orr said some shit that was either way out of line and/or involving a racial slur.

Some people give the benefit of the doubt to a slovenly middle aged Texas tech super fan with a documented history of vulgar and aggressive interactions with players; some people choose to give a 19 year old with a spotless record the benefit of the doubt.
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Please prove that you didn't pee in the shower in 2012.
 
jhmd2000 said:
I might too if that "spotless" Marcus Smart. It doesn't though, since Marcus's temper got the better of him in a different incident a mere three weeks ago. Let's ask Marcus if his record is spotless...Tweet from January 25:

marcus smart @smart_MS3
"Today wasn't one of my most proudest moments I lost my composure and left my team hanging it won't happen again and I apologize to my team"

That prior incident was when Smart picked up a foul, and walked over the bench to kick a chair in frustration . Sure, the chair might have called him a name, but I don't know if the chair was slovenly and/or middle aged (code, much?). I'm not willing to conclude that the chair must have called him a name, based solely on the degree of the reaction of the aggressor.

You say it's a young man with a spotless (not spotless) record against a superfan. Someone else could say it's a teenager with a temper problem late on the road in a third straight losing effort, caught up in the heat of battle. What nobody else has said is that they heard the same thing that Smart alleged (at least prior to the audio coming out). If what we're left with is "Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence," then that reasoning puts you in fine company. But I'm not sure its just cause to label someone you don't know a racist. Maybe he's just a Texas Tech fan with a bulldog mouth and a very poor impulse control.

Proving that you didn't do something is always being asked to prove a negative, no matter how you look at it.

I honestly don't know what happened, but I am surprised at the number of people who are convinced (based on dubious evidentiary underpinnings, extrapolations and stereotyping that they often proudly speak against in most other contexts) they know that he must happened that weren't there themselves.
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Well and rationally said.
 
I've def yelled worse at players, Lee Melchioni comes to mind. Travis Watson too.
 
Yeah I recall a Wake undergrad screaming "you f***ing mutt" at the point guard for GT back in 1999. People say horrible things at sporting events.

Bill Simmons discussed this with Chuck Klostermann on the BS Report yesterday. He even brought up the nut-punch incident, not necessarily equating them, but rhetorically asking how huge of a story it would be if had happened today instead of 10 years ago when you see the social media storm surrounding this Smart incident.
 
I was at a Villanova game, and Patrick Ewing was on the free throw line.... A student came down in a full gorilla costume, dancing behind the basket..
 
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