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MBB Game 11: App State @ LJVM - Wednesday 7 pm - ACCN

Goolsbyrules said:
Monsanto and Forbes got to get on same page, Wake won’t win three games in conference without him, and Forbes has known the kid long enough to figure it out. If Wake had a good practice yesterday who gives a shit, they had a shit game today. Play Monsanto
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Why? He is insubordinate and at this point he is who he is. He's 22 and in his third year of college ball, fourth if you count the redshirt year. He also doesn't help us. He leads the team is percentage of shots when he's on the floor but shoots just 39% from the field which is awful for somebody who supposedly should play despite all their flaws because of their shooting ability. His shot selection is horrendous, he appears to yell at teammates quite often, and falls asleep on defense. It's not like we're sitting a guy who has been helping the team. Right now, we have a bit of a black hole on the wing with Bobi clearly not ready for significant ACC minutes, Monsanto not capable of functioning as a complete player and teammate, and Carr either in foul trouble, struggling, or helping out at the 5. That's the biggest weakness area of the roster.
 
It was a win. The Deacs used a 17-2 run to in 6 minutes to start the second half and a last second turn around jumper by Andrew Carr to win. In the remaining 34 minutes App State outscored the Deacons 64-48. Those 34 minutes looked worse than the score would indicate.

The physical condition of Ituka, Williamson and Appleby is not good. None are at 100%. Rutgers and Duke are the beneficiaries. With a ten day break after Duke, the health of those three might improve, but I don't expect miracles.
 
Random thoughts on the game.

  • Appleby - playing injured and he had 6 TO's (of the teams' 11).
  • Williamson - spot up 3 point shooter, 0-6 from 2, Apps leading scorer was his man.
  • Marsh - 3 shots, probably should have had 5 (fouled and didn't catch one) but we had a hard time getting him the ball down low
  • Ituka - he was in for Ty and we gave up the lead
  • Klintman - all I hear about him are these 3ptrs some one saw him make, he had 3 OR right under the basket and passed it out. I think his main issue is being more aggressive on offense down low.
  • Monsanto - we know the guy can drill many 3's in a game, he's done it, but there is a difference between a 30 fts when you are 4-4 and when you are not hitting, plus there is a time and place for everything. He's jacked up early shots at the end of halves when we could have take the last shot.
 
Deac65 said:
IMHO Keller's biggest problem is a lack of strength. He has lost too many balls when he should have controlled them
If he gains 20 or so lbs. of muscle he may be able to contibute at the AVV level, otherwise a wasted scholarship.
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Jesus Christ he’s a freshman. Have some patience.
 
Wasn’t able to watch. Sounds like things went well?
 
WRS said:
Wasn’t able to watch. Sounds like things went well?
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Do you want the truth or do you want me to tell you it went well?

The good news is ASU is still 0-whatever against us.
 
Quick thoughts...

Rough game, but a win. Not too many positive things to take away from this one. I had hoped that it'd be a fun one for the team in the middle of a brutal stretch, but it didn't go that way at all.

  • Appleby was clearly not 100%, but I watched him for 2 seasons at Florida and he has a lot of games like this. It's frustrating. But he's the only PG we have and when he's good, he's great.
  • I love Monsanto, but I trust Forbes to handle his roster. If Forbes thinks benching Monsanto is the way to get through to him, I'm all for it.
  • Hildreth played another very good game. We're at the point where I expect him to play really well against teams with mid-major talent and then be a good piece in games against high-major talent.
  • Ituka seems to be getting more comfortable. Same with Williamson. We know who Williamson is at this point... He's a very good (and streaky) 3 point shooter who can do some other things on offense, but you can't rely on those other things too often.
  • Carr got his shot to fall a bit more last night, which is a good sign. My issue with him is that he's just not strong enough right now. He'll be very good for us next year.
  • Marsh is good in his role. Dunks off lobs and misses. Sets good screens.

Overall, and this is a harsh take, I just don't think we have the talent to be an NCAA team this year. We have ~10 players that are ACC-level rotation players (at varying stages of their career), but I'd rather have 3-4 really good players than 10 pretty good ones. My hope was that more players would separate themselves from the rest of the roster (as Appleby has), but we're in mid-December and that isn't happening.

I have very low expectations for Saturday... If Appleby is hurting and Monsanto is still an enigma, we're not going to win.

But I still think we can win a lot of games this season... Including the Duke game next week.
 
NJDeac’22 said:
Why? He is insubordinate and at this point he is who he is. He's 22 and in his third year of college ball, fourth if you count the redshirt year. He also doesn't help us. He leads the team is percentage of shots when he's on the floor but shoots just 39% from the field which is awful for somebody who supposedly should play despite all their flaws because of their shooting ability. His shot selection is horrendous, he appears to yell at teammates quite often, and falls asleep on defense. It's not like we're sitting a guy who has been helping the team. Right now, we have a bit of a black hole on the wing with Bobi clearly not ready for significant ACC minutes, Monsanto not capable of functioning as a complete player and teammate, and Carr either in foul trouble, struggling, or helping out at the 5. That's the biggest weakness area of the roster.
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Wake can’t win any significant games without Monsanto, if Wake is going to live by the portal then play the best players. If Monsanto is too detrimental to the team then he shouldn’t be on the team. I’d rather seem him play through his issues. Don’t make me watch App beat us with him on the bench. I get the coach is in charge. I saw enough of that with Manning and Bzz.
 
Deac83 said:
FWIW, the Wake/Carr winner is #1 on Sportscenter top 10.
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"So do you want the good news or the bad news first"?
Let's go with the good news first
"The good news, our buzzer-beater was #1 on SportsCenter Top Plays"
Great! and the bad news?....."
"We needed it to beat...... AppalachianDamnState....at home....."
Wah Wah.......
 
NJDeac’22 said:
Why? He is insubordinate and at this point he is who he is. He's 22 and in his third year of college ball, fourth if you count the redshirt year. He also doesn't help us. He leads the team is percentage of shots when he's on the floor but shoots just 39% from the field which is awful for somebody who supposedly should play despite all their flaws because of their shooting ability. His shot selection is horrendous, he appears to yell at teammates quite often, and falls asleep on defense. It's not like we're sitting a guy who has been helping the team. Right now, we have a bit of a black hole on the wing with Bobi clearly not ready for significant ACC minutes, Monsanto not capable of functioning as a complete player and teammate, and Carr either in foul trouble, struggling, or helping out at the 5. That's the biggest weakness area of the roster.
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We are going to have to get used to having patchwork teams year after year. If they work, great. Forbes, IMO, has done a great job of IDing and acquiring transfers who can provide significant minutes and points in his scheme. But these are the times we live in with transfers, early entries to go pro (which now means somebody can go pro anywhere in the world...except probably Russia. Not a good option right now). In the meantime, the young guys still need to develop. It looks like Marsh and Cam have. We need the same from Bobi if Forbes is going to build a program.

Monsanto is capable of playing within his element and it is important that he does just that. He's such a matchup problem with his height and ability to stroke it. I'm not sure why he's butting heads with Forbes, but it needs to stop. He gets some leeway due to family issues, but that should really be put to the side by now. As your post and some others illustrate, the need from him to do so is crucial for this team to have some success. He stretches the floor and opens up lanes for Appleby when he is out there. He is also capable of just going apeshit with the three and putting teams away. With better shot selection, I would expect to see his shooting % rise. He should be like a Craig Dawson for us.

Right now w/ Monsanto chucking up everything and Williamson looking like a shell of his former self, we are seriously flawed. That's even if Marsh goes out there and gives us 10/10, which he kind of has to do because Bradford really does not look good at all. Appleby being hurt is going to be a big test for this team. It is basically Cam's team w/ Appleby out. I like Cam a lot. He goes out and gives 100%, has improved incrementally every game, has the confidence you want, and seems to be the only guy with rebounding instincts on the team, but he is not a top option kind of guy yet.
 
The message a few days ago was: get more shots for Carr, Carr needs to score and rebound more. He scored more, and yet about the same with 5 boards.

The message now is Bobi can get into the lane almost at will, and he needs to be anti-Boris Diaw. Diaw would get in the lane, rarely shoot, and dish to Tim Duncan for the layup or dunk or dish out to Manu for 3 etc.

Marsh is good, but he ain't no Tim Duncan. When Bobi gets in the paint with the ball, a shot there is a good shot, natural part of the offense, it either goes in, he gets fouled or we grab the board - several good options. Bobi going 3/6 or 4/7 from the field with multiple shots inside 12 feet - GOOD option.

Also, Appleby is ridiculously good. He needs to skip Rutgers, unfortunately, and heal up.
 
Yeah, I'd rather give Ty a few more days to rest ahead of Duke than push him to play @ Rutgers.

Let Jao know he's gonna be the guy at PG for as many minutes as he can handle on Saturday and see what he can do. And obviously have Cam and Daivien handle it, as well.
 
Deac83 said:
Forbes did a pretty good job in the last 2.3. Carr was on the inbounded. Klintman had the guy that went long and stayed with him.

On the winning play. Cam inbounds, Klintman and Marsh keep their bigs away from the hoop or double teams. Davien in the corner. Leaving Carr with a smaller guy he could shoot over.
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It definitely looked like an assistant coach drew up the play and Forbes watched. Credit to Forbes for having an assistant who can draw up a good last second play though.
 
I want Bobi to be more aggressive on the offensive end once he gets to the interior. He drove it once and got to the lane where I thought he could have laid it in/shot it, but passed out instead. Then he got a huge offensive rebound late in the game where he probably should have gone straight up, but he kicked it out.

Good problem to have where he's doing the dirty work now, and actually needs to try to score more.
 
Marsh is still in process of transition (at least mentally) from "baby brother/little brother" (see family pic from his recruitment) to biggest dude on the court. It's probably only been since he got to Wake that he's realized he is the biggest dude who can literally move almost anybody on the court whenever he wants to.

He's still figuring out when to do that, and how to do it (without getting fouls called on himself). As that process continues, I think he has more upside. He also seems to be limited by his stamina. Doesn't look like he can go effectively for long stretches. He needs rest more frequently than some of the other guys. As that improves, he will be a much more difficult matchup and make Wake a more effective team.
 
Shooshmoo said:
It definitely looked like an assistant coach drew up the play and Forbes watched. Credit to Forbes for having an assistant who can draw up a good last second play though.
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I think it was Savage. I noticed the same thing - Forbes was in the middle nodding while Savage drew the play on the board. It may have been something where the coaches talked quickly first to design it, then Savage drew it out for the players.
 
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