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MBB Game 18: Louisville @ LJVM -- Saturday Noon -- ESPNU

deacon14 said:
Forbes inherited one of the worst P5 college basketball rosters imaginable, and has managed to have 10+ ACC wins in 2/3 of his full seasons so far. And in year 4, he now has Wake Forest positioned as well as anyone in the ACC not named Duke or UNC to make the NCAAT.

What the hell are you so pissed off about?
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Yup agreed. ACC COY + POY in year 2 (still wont get off the snub train for this one), another AP POY in year 3 in addition to the other incredible key transfers that could STILL take us to the tourney this year (and a whole lot more further in years to come).

Criticizing certain things he's done is fine but ...Firing Forbes after this year? and then what? Get another guy that probably wont take us to the tourney for ANOTHER 2-3 years at least because of the roster overhaul that'll come along with it?

Anyways back to Louisville please LOL there's that other shit credibility thread people can continue whining about over there
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
do I need to spell it out for you all? Don’t call me a fucking clown. Coach Forbes is a very well compensated professional, he can handle criticism, you aren’t his mommy. Back off.
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Do you want to fire Forbes today?
 
liveanddiedeac said:
That is reasonable, it's also reasonable to assert we're getting in the "put up or shut up" phase for Forbes and if he doesn't put up the rest of this season and next season, then some decisions need to be made.
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I do think this is fair FWIW. This year's team is clearly talented, and if they perform poorly in the remainder of ACC play it's certainly a negative reflection on Forbes.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
people love to talk shit but get surprised when it starts a fight, makes no sense.
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I don't think it's unreasonable at all to be critical of Forbes at this stage. I'm starting to feel like the fringe of the bubble is our ceiling every year.
 
Liquid Karma said:
I don't think it's unreasonable at all to be critical of Forbes at this stage. I'm starting to feel like the fringe of the bubble is our ceiling every year.
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Sadly it is becoming the ceiling for 13 teams in the ACC.
The last 3 years:
21: Virginia & FSU were 4 seeds. Everyone else flirted with the bubble (Clemson rose to a 7 seed)
22: Duke a 2 seed, everyone else was a bubble team or worse
23: Miami, Duke, and UVA were 4s & 5s. Everyone else was bubble or worse
24: Duke and NC are only teams not on the bubble.
Point is this league blows and if it doesn't collectively drastically improve, it is always going to be a chore to build a resume worthy of seeding talk versus bubble talk.
 
daaberry said:
Sadly it is becoming the ceiling for 13 teams in the ACC.
The last 3 years:
21: Virginia & FSU were 4 seeds. Everyone else flirted with the bubble (Clemson rose to a 7 seed)
22: Duke a 2 seed, everyone else was a bubble team or worse
23: Miami, Duke, and UVA were 4s & 5s. Everyone else was bubble or worse
24: Duke and NC are only teams not on the bubble.
Point is this league blows and if it doesn't collectively drastically improve, it is always going to be a chore to build a resume worthy of seeding talk versus bubble talk.
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Looked at a different way, in a league this weak we should be able to rise to the top of it and be one of those 3-4 teams that get in.
 
I’m still #FORBESIN but please for the love of god can we bury the narrative about how it’s going to take Forbes 1230810823423 years to get out of the situation he inherited? It’s never been easier to flip a roster, we have decent/good NIL, amazing facilities, play in a top league, etc. etc. it is an absolutely reasonable expectation to be making the tournament in year 4.
 
Henry Chinaski said:
I’m still #FORBESIN but please for the love of god can we bury the narrative about how it’s going to take Forbes 1230810823423 years to get out of the situation he inherited? It’s never been easier to flip a roster, we have decent/good NIL, amazing facilities, play in a top league, etc. etc. it is an absolutely reasonable expectation to be making the tournament in year 4.
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He’s had 3 different rosters, so I’m not exactly sure how what he “inherited” 3 seasons ago is somehow limiting our potential today? We have plenty of talent and a decent home environment, plus NIL support. What’s the explanation for us not being ready to make the NCAA tournament?
 
BigDeacEnergy said:
We’re in a position to do that. You’re acting like we’re DFL
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I'm not acting like that at all. I'm acting like we are mired right in the middle of the pack, and until we start beating teams that matter on the road that won't change. We aren't looking at a small sample size of data anymore. We have a good idea what Forbes is capable of at this point. Sometimes outstanding, often mid, sometimes infuriatingly poor. He's not above criticism.
 
All of this Net ranking is bullshit. shit data in.... The way college hoops is no these teams can change drastically during the year. SO many new pieces every year. Who wants to play FSU now? Wake and Clemson got totally screwed the past two years and both were a spit in the face of the ACC. This team this year is damn good. We got jobbed at State Tuesday despite the lack of composure. Thats the shit old timers had to deal with for years. Complete job by the officials too fkg scared to do their job properly because of the crowd. Pussies.

The thing about teams like this is that it takes time to create chemistry. Forbes seems to do a pretty good job with this. Our guys are playing too many minutes. Boopie just was not good tues other than the fts, Cam terrible. I think they are tired. We need to get the bench developed period. Jao Monsanto may be the answer. Marsh did fine tuesday but is not good for more than a couple of possessions at a time because he is not a factor on offense and teams adjust.

I think these new players will come in right at the perfect time to stir the pot and create continued improvement.

The season is damn long and the fact that November sets the statistical base line is beyond stupid.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
He’s had 3 different rosters, so I’m not exactly sure how what he “inherited” 3 seasons ago is somehow limiting our potential today? We have plenty of talent and a decent home environment, plus NIL support. What’s the explanation for us not being ready to make the NCAA tournament?
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(we’re saying the same thing, right?)
 
Henry Chinaski said:
I’m still #FORBESIN but please for the love of god can we bury the narrative about how it’s going to take Forbes 1230810823423 years to get out of the situation he inherited? It’s never been easier to flip a roster, we have decent/good NIL, amazing facilities, play in a top league, etc. etc. it is an absolutely reasonable expectation to be making the tournament in year 4.
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Agree with this, but would add that Forbes gets something of a pass for 2022. Feel like WF didn't get an invite based on the whims of the Selection Committee.

Everyone talks about how making the NCAAT is a goal, but there are nuances to that. NC State made the NCAAT last year (didn't deserve it and got immediately bounced in a non-competitive game). Really don't feel like that NCAAT bid was a particularly meaningful indication that NC State basketball had reached another level. Desperately want to make the NCAAT, but if WF does get a bid this year is a 10 seed, and loses decisively, won't feel much better about the program, unless WF builds on that success. The thing is I see Forbes as more than a guy that will get WF a bid in year 4 or 5, but a coach that is building something bigger.
 
Pilchard said:
Agree with this, but would add that Forbes gets something of a pass for 2022. Feel like WF didn't get an invite based on the whims of the Selection Committee.

Everyone talks about how making the NCAAT is a goal, but there are nuances to that. NC State made the NCAAT last year (didn't deserve it and got immediately bounced in a non-competitive game). Really don't feel like that NCAAT bid was a particularly meaningful indication that NC State basketball had reached another level. Desperately want to make the NCAAT, but if WF does get a bid this year is a 10 seed, and loses decisively, won't feel much better about the program, unless WF builds on that success. The thing is I see Forbes as more than a guy that will get WF a bid in year 4 or 5, but a coach that is building something bigger.
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Totally agree, but even making it and getting bounced would be (and needs to be) a step forward to more. But yeah it will be hyper LOWF if we get blown out in first four and Currie gives him a 10 year extension.
 
Pilchard said:
Agree with this, but would add that Forbes gets something of a pass for 2022. Feel like WF didn't get an invite based on the whims of the Selection Committee.

Everyone talks about how making the NCAAT is a goal, but there are nuances to that. NC State made the NCAAT last year (didn't deserve it and got immediately bounced in a non-competitive game). Really don't feel like that NCAAT bid was a particularly meaningful indication that NC State basketball had reached another level. Desperately want to make the NCAAT, but if WF does get a bid this year is a 10 seed, and loses decisively, won't feel much better about the program, unless WF builds on that success. The thing is I see Forbes as more than a guy that will get WF a bid in year 4 or 5, but a coach that is building something bigger.
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Forbes has said that he doesn't just want an NCAAT bid, he wants to win some games in it.
 
deacon14 said:
I do think this is fair FWIW. This year's team is clearly talented, and if they perform poorly in the remainder of ACC play it's certainly a negative reflection on Forbes.
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I'm not even sure I agree that we have enough talent this year, but we are closer to it than we were last year for certain. I think we are at least 1 and maybe 2 guys short of being legitimately top 20 good.

Our Starting 5 is fantastic -- and has been beating most of our opponents when on the floor together. +56 in 120 minutes versus non 280+ ranked opponents. Just +8 in over 3x as many minutes with any other lineup. Beyond that 5, we are just hoping that anyone else that comes on the floor gives us something and doesn't completely kill us. And it shows up in a drop off when any 1 of those 5 is off the floor (and especially if it's Reid and/or Carr) for normal rest, foul trouble, etc. And since refs are jabronis by nature and foul trouble is always more acute on the road, it tends to show up when we least need it to.

PF is our best option in that he doesn't typically kill us, but he's also probably not good enough to warrant 17 minutes per contest against good opponents. Keller -- much more mixed. Marsh minutes haven't been great. MMM or Canka minutes we've gotten obliterated.

Take the game against State. Our bench was outscored 31-2. 22 minutes with Reid/Carr both on the floor -- +9. With one off, 17 minutes for -10. Both off? 1 minute, -6. This isn't that unusual either.

As to the Forbes impact, I broke this down very early this season in the credibility thread and will take that longer discussion over there, but the punchline is that I think he's done a very good job of building us back up in a very intentional way, he's been a little unlucky in a few ways trying to accomplish that, and my confidence that we will get back to being a regular tourney team under Forbes stems from my belief that with even neutral luck in building a roster year-to-year going forward, we will eventually have rosters with enough to compete rather than always being 1-2 guys short.
 
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