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MBB Game 3: Utah Valley Wolverines - Tuesday 7 pm - ACCN+

Deac83 said:
A lot for us to learn about this team. We’ve played slightly more than one half of good basketball. Random thoughts:

  • Carr 15/14. Hard to complain about that in a game like tonight.
  • UVU was 4/31 from 3. Lots of long rebounds and they did a good job of tipping balls out.
  • we only had 11 TOs tonight. That was a half last year.
  • Not sure where our offense is going to come from out of this group
  • Great to see that Appleby is clutch
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Ituka is a scorer, as is Monsanto when he gets back in a groove.
 
donaldross said:
I asked the same. They said they were told the ACC had special home courts. Then one laughed pointing out correctly how much better there place is in Orem. I have been to that one and it is way better.
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you haven't lived until you have been to littlejohn or cassell!!
 
There is no way Mark Madsen is oblivious to the Duke/UK epic game and that final play.

How in the world, almost like Pete Carroll in the super bowl not giving the ball to Marshawn Lynch, do you NOT cover the inbounder/pass.

Everyone learned that from Duke/UK.

Thank you, goofy-ass Madsen.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Plus he should've never been whistled for flopping. Bradford went into him pretty good. Not sure if it should've been an offensive charge, but it definitely wasn't a flop.
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nah, disagree

can argue it may not be technical-worthy, but it was a good no-call
 
Interesting how perspective on the UVU game and this WF team changed based on the game winning shot. Amazing play. Clutch by all those involved. That said, the game overall was a huge red flag. UVU shot 13% from 3. They are at best a mediocre mid-major team (UVU is a mid-tier team in the WAC - which is a one-bid conference). In what will be their worst shooting game of the season, and WF struggled to beat UVU in OT.

If UVU has an average game from behind the arc, WF loses. If UVU had a good game from three, WF gets worked. Everyone here is freaking out.

Right now, WF lacks the offensive weapons to be an NCAAT or even a top half of the ACC team.

Carr is a solid player, but he shouldn't be WF's best/only option to score inside. WF shot 9 for 31 (28%) from 2 outside of Carr. That is horrid.

Appleby and Davien are both solid, but the Deacs desperately need another backcourt option. Lucas Taylor has played 40 minutes this season and has 3 points. Ituka's knee tendinitis needs to abate or Appleby and Davien are going to be worn out by Christmas (they played 79 minutes last night --- against UVU). If either Appleby or Davien miss games, its going to get ugly.

Hildreth is a gritty glue guy, and I like him, but he couldn't get by the UVU defender with the game on the line. The athletic ability of the wings that Hildreth will play against will be much better going forward. If he is WF #1 option for the season at 3 spot, yikes.

As for the 5 spot, if Bradford and Marsh are overmatched by UVU's center, who did nothing for two years at Akron, yes, the Zips were a strong MAC team, but they were a MAC team, who will Bradford and Marsh matchup well against? FWIW, Fairfield's center also overmatched Bradford and Marsh. Think about that, Marsh and Bradford couldn't play in crunch time against Fairfield and UVU. WF is so much worse at the 5 right now than last year with Walton and Sy. Looks like to me that Forbes already knows that his best shot is for Klinsman and Keller to work through their inexperience with the hope that they develop before season's end. Agree with that notion, but that's a big ask.

Bottom line is that this team is way behind last year's team in talent (and that team didn't make the NCAAT, which was a screw job). For this team to have anything other than a 'meh' season:

  • Ituka needs to return and play at a high level
  • Monsanto (and the coaching staff) have to get through whatever issues they are dealing with
  • Klintman needs to accelerate his development to be the player that he ultimately will be
  • By mid-January, Keller must find the level that would be reasonably expected of him next year

That's a lot of big "ifs", but without them coming through, hard to see this team going anywhere.
 
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Just one other note.

Got to love Steve Forbes.

His post-game comments on "we are going there to win, not have a good time" regarding Jamaica and then his love for the Great Alaska Shootout, as a comparison, is hysterical.
 
the thing is that yes the Deacs are not very good BUT most everybody in college basketball is not very good so who knows
 
Yeah I think the major thing is we have to find some meaningful interior presence other than Carr. Bradford doesn't seem to be offering up too much as the number two option, Bobi is probably the best longer term option so we either need to him to accelerate or we may be in some trouble very soon. Marsh probably isn't going to get the job done this season there either.
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
the thing is that yes the Deacs are not very good BUT most everybody in college basketball is not very good so who knows
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Yeah. That would have been the perspective of the game win or lose.
 
whatever is the opposite of #tooathletic is what I've seen out of marsh and bradford
 
Pilchard said:
Interesting how perspective on the UVU game and this WF team changed based on the game winning shot. Amazing play. Clutch by all those involved. That said, the game overall was a huge red flag. UVU shot 13% from 3. They are at best a mediocre mid-major team (UVU is a mid-tier team in the WAC - which is a one-bid conference). In what will be their worst shooting game of the season, and WF struggled to beat UVU in OT.

If UVU has an average game from behind the arc, WF loses. If UVU had a good game from three, WF gets worked. Everyone here is freaking out.

Right now, WF lacks the offensive weapons to be an NCAAT or even a top half of the ACC team.

Carr is a solid player, but he shouldn't be WF's best/only option to score inside. WF shot 9 for 31 (28%) from 2 outside of Carr. That is horrid.

Appleby and Davien are both solid, but the Deacs desperately need another backcourt option. Lucas Taylor has played 40 minutes this season and has 3 points. Ituka's knee tendinitis needs to abate or Appleby and Davien are going to be worn out by Christmas (they played 79 minutes last night --- against UVU). If either Appleby or Davien miss games, its going to get ugly.

Hildreth is a gritty glue guy, and I like him, but he couldn't get by the UVU defender with the game on the line. The athletic ability of the wings that Hildreth will play against will be much better going forward. If he is WF #1 option for the season at 3 spot, yikes.

As for the 5 spot, if Bradford and Marsh are overmatched by UVU's center, who did nothing for two years at Akron, yes, the Zips were a strong MAC team, but they were a MAC team, who will Bradford and Marsh matchup well against? FWIW, Fairfield's center also overmatched Bradford and Marsh. Think about that, Marsh and Bradford couldn't play in crunch time against Fairfield and UVU. WF is so much worse at the 5 right now than last year with Walton and Sy. Looks like to me that Forbes already knows that his best shot is for Klinsman and Keller to work through their inexperience with the hope that they develop before season's end. Agree with that notion, but that's a big ask.

Bottom line is that this team is way behind last year's team in talent (and that team didn't make the NCAAT, which was a screw job). For this team to have anything other than a 'meh' season:

  • Ituka needs to return and play at a high level
  • Monsanto (and the coaching staff) have to get through whatever issues they are dealing with
  • Klintman needs to accelerate his development to be the player that he ultimately will be
  • By mid-January, Keller must find the level that would be reasonably expected of him next year

That's a lot of big "ifs", but without them coming through, hard to see this team going anywhere.
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Trust me, the bigger picture didn't go unnoticed. After that game I find myself wondering whether we can avoid last place in the ACC.
 
Pilchard said:
Interesting how perspective on the UVU game and this WF team changed based on the game winning shot. Amazing play. Clutch by all those involved. That said, the game overall was a huge red flag. UVU shot 13% from 3. They are at best a mediocre mid-major team (UVU is a mid-tier team in the WAC - which is a one-bid conference). In what will be their worst shooting game of the season, and WF struggled to beat UVU in OT.

If UVU has an average game from behind the arc, WF loses. If UVU had a good game from three, WF gets worked. Everyone here is freaking out.

Right now, WF lacks the offensive weapons to be an NCAAT or even a top half of the ACC team.

Carr is a solid player, but he shouldn't be WF's best/only option to score inside. WF shot 9 for 31 (28%) from 2 outside of Carr. That is horrid.

Appleby and Davien are both solid, but the Deacs desperately need another backcourt option. Lucas Taylor has played 40 minutes this season and has 3 points. Ituka's knee tendinitis needs to abate or Appleby and Davien are going to be worn out by Christmas (they played 79 minutes last night --- against UVU). If either Appleby or Davien miss games, its going to get ugly.

Hildreth is a gritty glue guy, and I like him, but he couldn't get by the UVU defender with the game on the line. The athletic ability of the wings that Hildreth will play against will be much better going forward. If he is WF #1 option for the season at 3 spot, yikes.

As for the 5 spot, if Bradford and Marsh are overmatched by UVU's center, who did nothing for two years at Akron, yes, the Zips were a strong MAC team, but they were a MAC team, who will Bradford and Marsh matchup well against? FWIW, Fairfield's center also overmatched Bradford and Marsh. Think about that, Marsh and Bradford couldn't play in crunch time against Fairfield and UVU. WF is so much worse at the 5 right now than last year with Walton and Sy. Looks like to me that Forbes already knows that his best shot is for Klinsman and Keller to work through their inexperience with the hope that they develop before season's end. Agree with that notion, but that's a big ask.

Bottom line is that this team is way behind last year's team in talent (and that team didn't make the NCAAT, which was a screw job). For this team to have anything other than a 'meh' season:

  • Ituka needs to return and play at a high level
  • Monsanto (and the coaching staff) have to get through whatever issues they are dealing with
  • Klintman needs to accelerate his development to be the player that he ultimately will be
  • By mid-January, Keller must find the level that would be reasonably expected of him next year

That's a lot of big "ifs", but without them coming through, hard to see this team going anywhere.
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Always love reading actual #analysis.

100% agree that if we run into a good shooting team, we'll lose. Probably badly. Though I think Forbes would adjust the defense in that scenario. We were definitely lucky that UVU was terrible from 3 last night.

I worry less about the offense, even though it has looked terrible. Jao is going to come back. The injury he has may linger to a degree, but it's not a "shut it down" kind of thing. With Appleby/Williamson/Ituka in the rotation at the 1 & 2, we'll have some different looks... Including Ituka playing PG w/ Appleby at the 2 (which is MUCH better than some of the stretches last night when Hildreth dominated the ball and Appleby slid over to more of a 2). I think Appleby & Williamson at 30-35mpg will lead to better long-term results than 35-40mpg.

I'm also less concerned about Hildreth in ACC play. It'll be a lesser role, I think, with more Monsanto and Klintman... Which should also help the offense.

I am, however, also worried about the 5. I had assumed we'd be able to cobble 40 minutes out with some combo of Bradford, Marsh, Keller, and Carr... But I'm not so sure anymore. I'm actually fine with Bradford, whom I expect to get better and better. But Marsh doesn't look playable right now. And Keller looks like he can play for stretches, but it's a big ask. I'd MUCH rather have Carr at the 4. I have no idea what Forbes can do here. CAVEAT: Supreme Cook had a nice game against Xavier last night, so he's not a stiff. And Bandaogo looked like a tough matchup, as well.

Totally agree with your 4 bullets, though. And while that is a lot of "ifs", I do think at least 3 of 4 will hit.
 
L'ville is in a bad place right now. They just lost to 3 weak teams, and now they head to Hawaii to play #13 Arkansas. They will get murdered.

After the blowout loss to the Razorbacks, L'ville play the loser of #25 Creighton and #24 Texas Tech. It will be another blood bath. L'ville will then plan in the last place game against either: #12 Arizona, #16 San Diego State, #27 tOSU or #52 Cincy (coached by legend Wes Miller). After returning from Hawaii and suffering three blowout losses, L'ville plays:

#46 MD in the ACC/Big 10 classic
#43 Miami in the ACC opener.

There is almost no chance L'ville will be anything other than 0-8. Season over before it started. There will be at least one coach on the L'ville bench that will have experience with that.
 
DeacsATS said:
Have you watched Pitt, BC, Georgia Tech, FSU, or Louisville play yet? It's early, but those teams are all objectively worse than WFU.
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Last season's DFL wolpfack look much improved via the portal and can shoot the lights out.
 
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