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MBB Game 6: Charleston Southern @ WF; 1pm Friday - ACCN+

Some of you all have totally forgotten how awful we were under Buzz and Statue. We need to finally get over the hump and win some tight games, but to act like there's anything but good vibes with Forbes is crazy. We are at worst a mid tier ACC team with him. Sure, we'd like to be better than that. If you think that transformation from cellar to first tier happens in 3 years, you're just not being realistic.
 
Didn't see the game. I attended the NCSU / Charleston So. game last week with a friend. CS was giving State a good contest
until State went to a full court press. They got 4 - 10 sec violations and a number of steals to turn the game completely around. So much so, I'm sure CS worked on that a great deal.
Did we every full court press them?
 
BacktoBack said:
Some of you all have totally forgotten how awful we were under Buzz and Statue. We need to finally get over the hump and win some tight games, but to act like there's anything but good vibes with Forbes is crazy. We are at worst a mid tier ACC team with him. Sure, we'd like to be better than that. If you think that transformation from cellar to first tier happens in 3 years, you're just not being realistic.
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Agree to disagree. While football takes 3-4 years to rebuild, basketball rebuild can be done in 2 at most 3 years. It all depends on recruiting new ones or plucking ones from other schools based on the transfer rules and NIL.
 
raldeac said:
Didn't see the game. I attended the NCSU / Charleston So. game last week with a friend. CS was giving State a good contest
until State went to a full court press. They got 4 - 10 sec violations and a number of steals to turn the game completely around. So much so, I'm sure CS worked on that a great deal.
Did we every full court press them?
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Yes. Pressed some in the 2nd half.

Wake got the lead and didn't look back. Go figure....
 
ddeacs98 said:
Agree to disagree. While football takes 3-4 years to rebuild, basketball rebuild can be done in 2 at most 3 years. It all depends on recruiting new ones or plucking ones from other schools based on the transfer rules and NIL.
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Just because nil and transfer exists doesn't mean top guys want to come to Wake. For better or worse - success begets success. Most nobody wants to join a loser. He's elevated us from loser status. The next step IMHO will be better HS recruiting. Long term players will yield better results. Reloading every year seems hard to be successful with. Best bet is HS guys sprinkled with portal guys.
 
BacktoBack said:
Just because nil and transfer exists doesn't mean top guys want to come to Wake. For better or worse - success begets success. Most nobody wants to join a loser. He's elevated us from loser status. The next step IMHO will be better HS recruiting. Long term players will yield better results. Reloading every year seems hard to be successful with. Best bet is HS guys sprinkled with portal guys.
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And I think Forbes brings in more three year portal guys like this year, rather than so many one and done guys like his first year. Find those guys who matured a bit later than their chronological peers. Bring them in as sophs. Profit.
 
In his postgame comments Forbes stated that the coaching staff has focused on defense since the tournament. Practice became rough again and would continue to be rough until the improvement required was achieved. He admitted the injuries had tied his hands in fear that more would occur in practice to a depleted team. He has no choice at present because lousy rebounding and defense are resulting in losses.

I suspect Clark's PT yesterday was a result of Canka and Friedrichsen lacking offense without any contributions on defense. Forbes gave Clark his opportunity and his D kept him on the floor. Forbes, Salas and Hildreth all made postgame mention of of Clark's contribution . No measure of offense compares to the improvement on team D that Clark stimulated off the bench.
 
Parker was looking like a solid contributor for second, but is like 1 for 9 in his last three games. For a team already missing Monsanto's shooting that's definitely hurt us.
 
DCDeac said:
Parker was looking like a solid contributor for second, but is like 1 for 9 in his last three games. For a team already missing Monsanto's shooting that's definitely hurt us.
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He’s been weirdly good (for a freshman) at everything except the one thing we all assumed he would have no problem with.
 
His shot still looks pretty good so I assume he’ll start to hit. But yeah he’s got to make some shots for us right now if he’s gonna get minutes.
 
Parker is just rushing a tad. Not getting his feet set. Once he gets a bit more comfortable, still think he has the potential to be a damari type weapon from deep.
 
There is no question that Forbes inherited an epic mess after the last 2 idiots. He also has a great personality and is very likable. I believe everyone wants him to succeed and are willing to give him an appropriate amount of time.

However, the team’s failure on some fundamental aspects of the game needs to be corrected. Our rebounding is beyond bad and has always been an issue. We also routinely lose 50/50 balls. Both of these issues tie directly to effort.

Forbes teams have also been consistently poor defensively. Again a lot of defense is related to effort. We are also prone to turnovers…and often stupid unnecessary turnovers.

The combination of these fundamental areas puts us at a huge disadvantage particularly in close games coming down the stretch.

If Forbes can get these things corrected most folks would be patient with him given the shit show he inherited. If he doesn’t…no need to give him more time because he will never win at this level with a team that does not rebound, play solid defense and value the basketball.
 
deac87 said:
Our rebounding is beyond bad and has always been an issue.
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A lot of people on here criticise Marsh for his rebounding and that's probably fair but I see a lot less people talking about Keller's rebounding and honestly I think it's significantly worse. He's seemingly never in position to get a rebound, it feels like every time a shot goes up he's stood directly under the basket where he has no chance of grabbing anything, every rebound just goes straight over his head. Offensive rebounds have absolutely killed us in a few games recently and I haven't checked any stats to back this up but it feels like the majority of them come when Keller's on the court. When Marsh was out, our rebounding seemed to improve when Keller sat and MMM came in.

To put it into a bit of perspective, Keller and Parker have both played 94 minutes so far this season. Keller has 15 rebounds compared to Parker's 13. A skinny 6'3 freshman guard should not be rebounding at basically the same rate as the 6'10 big guy in his second year. I don't know if it's down to just bad positioning or if he doesn't have the desire or strength to fight for his spot on rebounds or what but he needs to figure it out quickly because second chance points have been one of this team's biggest weaknesses so far this year.

I don't want it to seem like I'm just hating on Keller, he's already shown more this season than I was expecting from him, but he needs to improve in this area big time if he's gonna keep getting minutes.
 
deac87 said:
There is no question that Forbes inherited an epic mess after the last 2 idiots. He also has a great personality and is very likable. I believe everyone wants him to succeed and are willing to give him an appropriate amount of time.

However, the team’s failure on some fundamental aspects of the game needs to be corrected. Our rebounding is beyond bad and has always been an issue. We also routinely lose 50/50 balls. Both of these issues tie directly to effort.

Forbes teams have also been consistently poor defensively. Again a lot of defense is related to effort. We are also prone to turnovers…and often stupid unnecessary turnovers.

The combination of these fundamental areas puts us at a huge disadvantage particularly in close games coming down the stretch.

If Forbes can get these things corrected most folks would be patient with him given the shit show he inherited. If he doesn’t…no need to give him more time because he will never win at this level with a team that does not rebound, play solid defense and value the basketball.
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You would think in his fourth year that these would be corrected though. They continue to be an issue year after year
 
AJMorgan said:
A lot of people on here criticise Marsh for his rebounding and that's probably fair but I see a lot less people talking about Keller's rebounding and honestly I think it's significantly worse. He's seemingly never in position to get a rebound, it feels like every time a shot goes up he's stood directly under the basket where he has no chance of grabbing anything, every rebound just goes straight over his head. Offensive rebounds have absolutely killed us in a few games recently and I haven't checked any stats to back this up but it feels like the majority of them come when Keller's on the court. When Marsh was out, our rebounding seemed to improve when Keller sat and MMM came in.

To put it into a bit of perspective, Keller and Parker have both played 94 minutes so far this season. Keller has 15 rebounds compared to Parker's 13. A skinny 6'3 freshman guard should not be rebounding at basically the same rate as the 6'10 big guy in his second year. I don't know if it's down to just bad positioning or if he doesn't have the desire or strength to fight for his spot on rebounds or what but he needs to figure it out quickly because second chance points have been one of this team's biggest weaknesses so far this year.

I don't want it to seem like I'm just hating on Keller, he's already shown more this season than I was expecting from him, but he needs to improve in this area big time if he's gonna keep getting minutes.
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Stats back up your eyes. Rebound rate season to date:

Marsh 13.9%
Carr 13.3%
Marion 11.2%
Keller 8.7%
Parker 7.6%
Cam 7.5%
Boopie 4.8%
Sallis 4.7%
Canka 0.0%
Clark 0.0%

Pick your favorite lineup and add up the above to see what percentage of total boards our team grabs. Now pick a lineup that gets to 50% and doesn’t kill us elsewhere. Have fun.

EVERYONE needs to be better, but given our roster Keller can’t play Center like he has and shouldn’t play anything else.
 
agree on Parker's shot. I was thinking that he was going to be a smooth as butter kind of shooter but he actually looks pretty fugly when shooting threes. Kind of half set shot like LaMelo but not as nice looking. Still think he is going to be good but his form is not what I thought it would be. But I also think that Sallis's three point shot is fugly and he has been great so what do i know.
 
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