NC Open Enrollment School Bill

[Deacfreak07]

Do you oppose open enrollment or not?

I do. Let's fix the schools that are bad. That should be the priority.

If/when I have kids, would I take advantage of it, of course.

 

[tjcmd]

Then you are suggesting otherwise.

 

[Deacon923]

Then you are suggesting otherwise.

that's stupid. if you take all the tax deductions to which you are entitled, does that mean you oppose reforming the tax code?

 

[Deacon923]

this jabroni has been going to the jhmd school of argument. mere coincidence that he's located in Chapel Hill?

 

[Deacfreak07]

Then you are suggesting otherwise.

Don't be dense.

 

[tjcmd]

that's stupid. if you take all the tax deductions to which you are entitled, does that mean you oppose reforming the tax code?

If you take all the tax deductions to which you are entitled, but argue to eliminate tax deductions, it means that you are either quite a hypocrit or believe that you gain overall if everyone else's tax deductions are eliminated. That is how people can sing the praises of increased taxes but never voluntarily send in additional tax money themselves.

 

[Deacon923]

The logical conclusion of your specious argument is that no one can criticize anything about the society they live in. Since that is the case, please confine your posts to criticizing China from now on. The rest of us will thank you.

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

I was differentiating between the decision of a parent and the decisions of policy makers. Of course you should choose the best possible school for your kids as a parent. No one is suggesting otherwise. My point is that it seems ludicrous to me that we would write public policy resigned that some schools will just be inevitably flawed.

But at some point is it better to recognize that some schools are going to be inevitably flawed for the relevant future and simply do the best we can to maximize what works well, instead of going in circles in an attempt to somehow save the entire thing while knowing that is extremely unlikely to happen, and wasting time (and kids) in the circlejerk? It's like Social Security. Anybody with half a brain knows the problems and how it would get fixed in a perfect world, but everybody also knows that it will never get fixed in the foreseeable future with our political system. So do you try to make incremental fixes like age adjustments to at least minimze the damage, or do you just watch the whole system crash and burn while trying to come up with a solution that will either never be found or never be implemented?

 

[PhDeac]

Why are some schools going to be inevitably flawed?

 

[Deacon923]

But at some point is it better to recognize that some schools are going to be inevitably flawed for the relevant future and simply do the best we can to maximize what works well, instead of going in circles in an attempt to somehow save the entire thing while knowing that is extremely unlikely to happen, and wasting time (and kids) in the circlejerk? It's like Social Security. Anybody with half a brain knows the problems and how it would get fixed in a perfect world, but everybody also knows that it will never get fixed in the foreseeable future with our political system. So do you try to make incremental fixes like age adjustments to at least minimze the damage, or do you just watch the whole system crash and burn while trying to come up with a solution that will either never be found or never be implemented?

I don't know, but I heard tjcmd advises his parents to refuse to cash their social security checks until the situation is perfected.

 

[Deacfreak07]

But at some point is it better to recognize that some schools are going to be inevitably flawed for the relevant future and simply do the best we can to maximize what works well, instead of going in circles in an attempt to somehow save the entire thing while knowing that is extremely unlikely to happen, and wasting time (and kids) in the circlejerk? It's like Social Security. Anybody with half a brain knows the problems and how it would get fixed in a perfect world, but everybody also knows that it will never get fixed in the foreseeable future with our political system. So do you try to make incremental fixes like age adjustments to at least minimze the damage, or do you just watch the whole system crash and burn while trying to come up with a solution that will either never be found or never be implemented?

Those failing schools are not in the abstract. Those failing schools in a district are comprised of 1,000s of kids who will be stuck there with an over reliance on choice policies to evade the problems that exist.

 

[Deacfreak07]

If you take all the tax deductions to which you are entitled, but argue to eliminate tax deductions, it means that you are either quite a hypocrit or believe that you gain overall if everyone else's tax deductions are eliminated. That is how people can sing the praises of increased taxes but never voluntarily send in additional tax money themselves.

Policy should be written for a communal benefit. Individuals should operate within that policy in their own self-interest. This really shouldn't be too hard to understand.

 

[Deacon923]

But at some point is it better to recognize that some schools are going to be inevitably flawed for the relevant future and simply do the best we can to maximize what works well, instead of going in circles in an attempt to somehow save the entire thing while knowing that is extremely unlikely to happen, and wasting time (and kids) in the circlejerk? It's like Social Security. Anybody with half a brain knows the problems and how it would get fixed in a perfect world, but everybody also knows that it will never get fixed in the foreseeable future with our political system. So do you try to make incremental fixes like age adjustments to at least minimze the damage, or do you just watch the whole system crash and burn while trying to come up with a solution that will either never be found or never be implemented?

to give an actual reply: the bolded words are the most important part of the whole post. When you consign "some schools" to be "inevitably flawed for the relevant future" what you are doing is wasting kids. The kids who are trapped in those schools, specifically. It sounds great to give everyone a "choice", except that there isn't enough space in the good schools, so someone has to go to the "inevitably flawed" schools. Those kids are the ones who are wasted, and we end up paying for them to be on welfare and in prison at high multiples of what it would cost to educate them.

And of course, as it actually turns out, because poor families don't have cars, public transport sucks, and no politician who supports school choice will also support paying for guaranteed transport to and from the choice school, it's the poor kids who inevitably get stuck and wasted in those schools.

I personally believe that there is no such thing as an "inevitably flawed" school. There are only schools that we don't have the political and financial commitment to fix. That's not inevitable, that's a choice.

 

[BillBrasky]

Policy should be written for a communal benefit. Individuals should operate within that policy in their own self-interest. This really shouldn't be too hard to understand.

This sums up everything that is wrong with our current political atmosphere and why I have zero respect for the modern upper-class faux progressive.

In the end its all about making yourself feel better about yourself, not actually about affecting change.

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

Those failing schools are not in the abstract. Those failing schools in a district are comprised of 1,000s of kids who will be stuck there with an over reliance on choice policies to evade the problems that exist.

I agree. So what is better, to keep a failing school as-is and keep 1,000 kids there, or enact some pretty poor legislation that keeps 900 kids there? Because those are the two options we are faced with; there is no third option on the table that fixes it for all 1,000 kids.

It's like the post-release arguments for Obamacare. Something is better than nothing is all we have heard. The problem with Obamacare is that, arguably, it is a net engative. And that is the question here. Does something like this proposed legislation create a net positive or a net negative. If you are one of the kids going from a bad school to a good school, then it is a net positive. Given that I doubt many people will be going from a good school to a bad school (because otherwise you would just stay in your home district), then it would seem to be a net positive. Maybe not a great net positive, but arguably better than the status quo.

 

[Deacfreak07]

I agree. So what is better, to keep a failing school as-is and keep 1,000 kids there, or enact some pretty poor legislation that keeps 900 kids there? Because those are the two options we are faced with; there is no third option on the table that fixes it for all 1,000 kids.

It's like the post-release arguments for Obamacare. Something is better than nothing is all we have heard. The problem with Obamacare is that, arguably, it is a net engative. And that is the question here. Does something like this proposed legislation create a net positive or a net negative. If you are one of the kids going from a bad school to a good school, then it is a net positive. Given that I doubt many people will be going from a good school to a bad school (because otherwise you would just stay in your home district), then it would seem to be a net positive. Maybe not a great net positive, but arguably better than the status quo.

I'm suggesting there should be a third option.

 

[Deacfreak07]

This sums up everything that is wrong with our current political atmosphere and why I have zero respect for the modern upper-class faux progressive.

In the end its all about making yourself feel better about yourself, not actually about affecting change.

:squint: Unpack this.

 

[BillBrasky]

As to actual policy, I'd create a system in which each county and/or district would do its best to have all of its schools at a similar income average.

 

[PhDeac]

As to actual policy, I'd create a system in which each county and/or district would do its best to have all of its schools at a similar income average.

You busin', bro?

 

[tjcmd]

The logical conclusion of your specious argument is that no one can criticize anything about the society they live in. Since that is the case, please confine your posts to criticizing China from now on. The rest of us will thank you.

The logical conclusion of my argument is that people are really most interested in the welfare of themselves and of their own families. Even people who purport to oppose school choice for all squawk when they are forced to send their own children to a substandard school. Thanks for the advice.