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Next year’s football team

Demonwolverine said:
I’m not saying it, but a lot of people are saying there are at least 4 QBs better than Sam Hartman in the ACC this year.
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Depends on who is rating. Just for ACC purposes and college football QB’s, Leary, Hartman & Armstrong
 
TheReff said:
Depends on who is rating. Just for ACC purposes and college football QB’s, Leary, Hartman & Armstrong
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But get into what the NFL is looking for and that subject takes a huge turn. Hartman at 6’1 won’t get the NFL looks I am afraid but he is wildly proficient in our offense !
 
thatguy2016 said:
I guess Leary and TVD get a TBD on big game performance
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Leary beat Clemson last year, which Hartman has never done. He also had better numbers head-to-head against Hartman last year in W-S. And he beat UNC-CH.
 
BiffTannen said:
Leary beat Clemson last year, which Hartman has never done. He also had better numbers head-to-head against Hartman last year in W-S. And he beat UNC-CH.
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Hartman won the head to head matchup last year, which Leary has never done. Hartman won a division last year, which Leary has never done.

Hartman had a better QBR, head to head, despite playing against a significantly better defense.
 
thatguy2016 said:
I guess Leary and TVD get a TBD on big game performance
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I get that we are all have a bias in support of Hartman, and I obviously hope it won't be a problem going forwards, but the criticism of Hartman's big game performances is legitimate. Here's his stats from the biggest games of his career:

Pitt: 21/46 213 yards, 2 TDs, 4 INTs
@Clemson (2021): 27/43, 312 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
NC State (2021): 20/47, 290 yards, 3 TDs, 3 INTs
@UNC (2021): 25/51, 398 yards, 5 TDs, 2 INTs
Wisconsin (2020): 20/37, 318 yards, 3 TDs, 4 INTs
@UNC (2020): 29/45, 429 yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs

I'd argue those are the 6 most important games of his career, and in those games Wake is 1-5. His average stat line in those 6 games is: 23.7/44.8 (Completion %: 52.8), 327 yards, 3 TDs, 2.3 INTs. In the past two seasons outside of those 6 games (17 games) Hartman has 34 TDs and 5 INTs. His average completion % in the other 17 games was 62.8%.

It's fair to say Hartman has performed significantly worse in the most meaningful games. In the big games the past two years, Hartman averages throwing 2.3 INTs, and in all other games the past two years, Hartman averages throwing 0.3 INTs. Throwing an extra 2 INTs/game against the good teams is a perfectly fair reason to rate Hartman lower than some other QBs, whether they have an extensive track record or not.
 
GTFO with that QBR crap. Hartman had a 72 QBR with 290 yards, 3 TDs and 3INTs playing at home, while Leary had a 59 QBR with 408 yards and 4/2.

Hartman has looked overmatched every time he has faced Clemson (he's not the only one on the roster this applies to) and is 0-2 against UNC-CH.

He also didn't perform well against Pitt in the ACCCG and against Wisconsin in what would have been a signature bowl win, with four interceptions in both games.

It's not unfair to say that Hartman has not played all that great in big games and that Leary has shown that he can win a big game.
 
Good post deacon14.

I would give Hartman a little more credit and a little more of a break. Hartman has been outstanding in his two games against UNC, and our defense has let us down tremendously. The game against UNC last season was also not one of our biggest games, since it was non-conference. The game @UVA was a bigger game and he was excellent. He was very good against Louisville as well, a team that did not play up to it's talent much of the year but who gave us their A game. The State game last season was the single biggest home game in a decade plus, right? Hartman did not play his best and made a couple very bad decisions, but he led us to a huge win.

All that said, I agree Hartman has come up short in the biggest games. I think he does too much, and part of that is on the coaching staff. He's got a great opportunity this season.
 
It’s hard for teams like Clemson and UNC to get fired up to play games against teams without a football tradition like NC State. We got their best shot because playing Wake is their Super Bowl.
 
UNC games may have been big (relatively) but they also had trash defenses and good offenses, so only partial credit to Sam for "performance in [those two] big games"
 
The UNC-CH game was a very big game and losing it really hurt our national perception going into the CFP rankings. BTW, we were playing Carolina and we were undefeated so it was a big game.
 
BiffTannen said:
GTFO with that QBR crap. Hartman had a 72 QBR with 290 yards, 3 TDs and 3INTs playing at home, while Leary had a 59 QBR with 408 yards and 4/2.

Hartman has looked overmatched every time he has faced Clemson (he's not the only one on the roster this applies to) and is 0-2 against UNC-CH.

He also didn't perform well against Pitt in the ACCCG and against Wisconsin in what would have been a signature bowl win, with four interceptions in both games.

It's not unfair to say that Hartman has not played all that great in big games and that Leary has shown that he can win a big game.
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I don't disagree that Hartman, along with the rest of the roster, has not played well in big games.

Leary's biggest game last year was in Winston-Salem, and he lost. Good for him that Clemson threw up all over itself, and that UNC can't field an onside kick, but he lost the game that mattered most.
 
BiffTannen said:
The UNC-CH game was a very big game and losing it really hurt our national perception going into the CFP rankings. BTW, we were playing Carolina and we were undefeated so it was a big game.
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If we won the UNC game and lost to Virginia, we would not have made the ACC Championship game. So I agree, the UNC game was big, but it wasn't as big as Virginia or Louisville, and certainly not as big as State.
 
wakelaw13 said:
Good post deacon14.

I would give Hartman a little more credit and a little more of a break. Hartman has been outstanding in his two games against UNC, and our defense has let us down tremendously. The game against UNC last season was also not one of our biggest games, since it was non-conference. The game @UVA was a bigger game and he was excellent.
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Thanks, I found it interesting to look at the stats, as I had mostly just heard the noise around the "big" games but not really looked at the numbers. Obviously, I was pretty disappointed with what I saw there.

I pretty strongly disagree with calling the UVA game a bigger game than the UNC one. Regardless of final records of each team, I think it's fair to say that UNC was a better team last year than UVA. Wake fans/players consider UNC a rival and not UVA. And the UNC game was much later in the year when we were (for the first time ever) undefeated and in the CFP conversation.

wakelaw13 said:
The State game last season was the single biggest home game in a decade plus, right? Hartman did not play his best and made a couple very bad decisions, but he led us to a huge win.
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Yes, we won that game, but I'd pretty heavily push back against the notion that Hartman led us to that win. He threw 3 picks with a completion percentage of 42.6%.

On the most important drive of that game, when the score was 38-35 Wake with 8:05 remaining, we ran the ball 8 times out of 14 plays on the way to a touchdown that took 6:20 off the clock. On that drive, Hartman was 2/4 for 26 yards, with a 9 yard rush, and he took a sack. So at the most important moment in the game, Hartman was not who we relied on to go win us that game.
 
BTW, Leary was dealing in the fourth quarter against Wake, and Wake probably would have lost that game if the onsides kick had been called in NC State's favor on the field.
 
hartman has been pretty bad in big games. would note that the BC game last year was definitely a big game, and actually think he played pretty well against clemson. i just don't think there's much evidence that any of that is truly predictive.
 
I'm very happy for Biff that he finally got another chance to remind us that Wake football ain't shit. It's been a few weeks.
 
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