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Next year’s football team

tigerswood said:
Some of us have been advocating for more RB screens/swing passes, bubble screens, pop passes/jet sweeps, etc. for a long time. For whatever reason, they haven't happened.

Also, if teams are going to play press coverage with no safety help (i.e. Clemson) to one side, Perry or Greene are going to have to feast on 50/50 balls. That's just taking what the defense is giving us. Problem there is Clemson apparently can't commit pass interference/holding against Wake. A quicker release fade route (like you see more often in the red zone) vs. a long developing 40+ yard heave downfield would also help keep Sam clean.
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There's not really an answer that's just them feeling good about the personnel.

They like throwing the bubble screen to the slot, but throwing it to Roberson was a lost cause as we saw time after time, he's not the guy you want doing that. They ran it to success with Ke'Shawn a few times, including against Clemson, and he registered 60% of his targets from behind the LOS to 9 yards. Morin was the closest at 46%. Now that the slot will be more of a timeshare instead of a 70/30 split(granted if everyone stays healthy), I can see them doing that more.

RB Screens/Swing passes, well that's just on Sam. Not meant to bash him, but the list of times he could easily just check it down is...he just has to do it more. Clemson, Pitt, Wisconsin, NC State. When he starts pushing whenever the game is spiraling a bit, his nasty tick is just keep pushing it downfield and not just get back into a rhythm.

Pop passes and jet sweeps for this OL will be... close to zero unless they play better in games against larger DL. They have to learn to block right then in order for funky stuff
 
We have a good enough team now, to keep the opponents D-coordinators up all night by running some I-formation, with a backup TE or OL at full back - inside the 5 yard line.

A little ground and pound - we have a good enough line to do that now, successfully.

Also, we should randomly run some Grobe WR orbit or at least show that motion --- that way teams cannot just load up and crash the box and land on Hartman's ankle etc. because we run the same play every snap. Williams could be successful IMO in the orbit.

I know we have a great offense, but we could always add a wrinkle or two, with a 7th year quarterback!
 
"I know we have a great offense, but we could always add a wrinkle or two, with a 7th year quarterback"

Amen
 
CamLemons said:
There's not really an answer that's just them feeling good about the personnel.

They like throwing the bubble screen to the slot, but throwing it to Roberson was a lost cause as we saw time after time, he's not the guy you want doing that. They ran it to success with Ke'Shawn a few times, including against Clemson, and he registered 60% of his targets from behind the LOS to 9 yards. Morin was the closest at 46%. Now that the slot will be more of a timeshare instead of a 70/30 split(granted if everyone stays healthy), I can see them doing that more.

RB Screens/Swing passes, well that's just on Sam. Not meant to bash him, but the list of times he could easily just check it down is...he just has to do it more. Clemson, Pitt, Wisconsin, NC State. When he starts pushing whenever the game is spiraling a bit, his nasty tick is just keep pushing it downfield and not just get back into a rhythm.

Pop passes and jet sweeps for this OL will be... close to zero unless they play better in games against larger DL. They have to learn to block right then in order for funky stuff
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Don't pop passes/jet sweeps help stretch out overly aggressive front 7s that are getting upfield? Obviously, if an OT whiffs and the DE gets upfield right into the play, you've got problems, but I've seen overmatched teams run these plays successfully many times when the regular inside run is being stuffed. Our WR blocking typically seems pretty strong, which also helps on plays like this to the outside.

A middle screen/shovel pass against an overly aggressive defense would also be neat.
 
Remember when Lobo’s play of the week was that weird underhanded middle screen?
 
tigerswood said:
Don't pop passes/jet sweeps help stretch out overly aggressive front 7s that are getting upfield? Obviously, if an OT whiffs and the DE gets upfield right into the play, you've got problems, but I've seen overmatched teams run these plays successfully many times when the regular inside run is being stuffed. Our WR blocking typically seems pretty strong, which also helps on plays like this to the outside.

A middle screen/shovel pass against an overly aggressive defense would also be neat.
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In theory, yes, it's a great way to get a DL to backoff.

You still have to block correctly because of who you're leaving unblocked, with Clemson it's one of Bresee/Myles Murphy/Xavier Thomas and that's a terrible idea to leave any of those guys unblocked imo. Same sort of idea with the shovel pass. They're barely having time to hit quick routes over the middle blocking with 6 or 7 blockers, taking away one of those might not be the best option.

Again, think we'll see the screens more now with the personnel in the slot as they like peppering Key with it and that's something that probably has to be used more along with hitting the backs when they leak out, but Sam has got to trust them more. That's all on him
 
You're far more X's and O's smart than I. The nature of the play would likely leave the DE on the opposite side unblocked, and against Clemson, I guess they might still be fast enough to create issues? You certainly aren't leaving the strong side DT/DE unblocked. Many times, a TE or even WR will crack down & try to seal block the strong side DE to chip him enough to allow the sweeping back/WR to get outside. And the tackle then pulls around the edge.
 
Understand wanting to add to the playbook. To this day, never understood why the WF staff never took into account that Kendall Hinton started 13 games as QB before becoming a WR. You would think at some point, WF would want to leverage the fact that they had receiver that had the arm talent to play QB on the Power Conference level, but WF never designed and called a play for Hinton to throw after he moved to receiver.

That said, Clawson and Ruggiero leave no stone unturned to maximize success from tempo to diet. Really don't think they are neglecting something as basic as scheme and play calls. So, if jet sweeps and screens, would lead to more offensive production, WF would go there. Also, the bottom line for an offense is scoring. Not only is WF scoring more points per game, by far, than at any point in its history, if there was a metric that graded points per game based on an offense's collective recruiting ranking (which is why WF always lags in Connelly's CFB power rankings), would bet that WF would be #1 in the nation by a mile (last year's Clemson team would've been last by a mile). So, WF's offense maximizes scoring beyond anything in school history, and beyond anything that recruiting rankings (to the extent they are valid) would reasonably expect.

The bottom line is that the staff has learned that over time that maximum offense success is mostly based on perfecting the concepts that Ruggiero and Clawson have designed as opposed to constant tinkering of gameplans and play calls, which can lead to a wider variance from game to game, but not greater success over a season. FWIW, there are a ton of OCs that have amazing game scripts for the first drive or two of a game, but when the defense adjusts to the specific scheme for that game, the offense is screwed because they don't have a basic offense that they can count on.

Have no doubt that the staff is always innovating and evolving, including adding to or modifying the available offensive plays if that would increase the chances for success. Will be interested to see what tweaks are made for the upcoming season.
 
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tigerswood said:
You're far more X's and O's smart than I. The nature of the play would likely leave the DE on the opposite side unblocked, and against Clemson, I guess they might still be fast enough to create issues? You certainly aren't leaving the strong side DT/DE unblocked. Many times, a TE or even WR will crack down & try to seal block the strong side DE to chip him enough to allow the sweeping back/WR to get outside. And the tackle then pulls around the edge.
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So, there was actually a good breakdown about this like a year or so again: http://breakdownsports.blogspot.com/2021/08/film-review-blocking-jet-fly-sweep.html

Multiple ways to skin a cat! If you don't block the 3T (defensive tackle lined up off the guard's outside shoulder), you have to worry about a 5T defensive end. You either have to get him on the ground quickly or seal him, and if someone messes that up, the play is auto dead. I don't think Clemson's DL gets enough credit, as wild as that is to say, for how athletic and fast they are. Watch Kern's pass to A.T., that's not an LB staying with him for 15 yards, that's a DT.

If you choose to block the DT and leave the DE unblocked, if they're good, they will end the play before it starts.

I am curious to what they do with the Morin in motion idea they keep teasing. last couple of years it's been either him getting the ball under center or coming in to block, but a quick out to him or Ke'Shawn off that motion they continuously use would look to be beneficial
 
Pilchard said:
Also, the bottom line for an offense is scoring. Not only is WF scoring more points per game, by far, than at any point in its history, if there was a metric that graded points per game based on an offense's collective recruiting ranking (which is why WF always lags in Connelly's CFB power rankings), would bet that WF would be #1 in the nation by a mile (last year's Clemson team would've been last by a mile). So, WF's offense maximizes scoring beyond anything in school history, and beyond anything that recruiting rankings (to the extent they are valid) would reasonably expect.
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Connelly also adjusts for number of possessions. WF scores a lot in part because its possessions are short, and WF gets more possessions than the average team. This of course means the defense also has more possessions than the average team. On a per-possession basis, the WF offense does not rank as highly as it does on a per game basis.
 
We are not low in Connelly's rankings because he undervalues our offense. Rankings going into the season, per his ACC Atlantic preview (need E+):

Offensive rank - #9
Defensive rank - #97
 
..

Is Wake Forest's defense an issue or a catastrophe? Of last year's three Atlantic contenders, Dave Clawson's Demon Deacons were the photo negative of the other two: incredible on offense and a slight debacle on defense. Wake allowed at least 34 points in seven of 14 games but actually managed to go 4-3 in those games thanks to its own ridiculous passing game led by quarterback Sam Hartman (4,228 yards, 39 touchdowns, 12th in Total QBR). It's tough to keep doing that.

Even without 1,000-yard receiver Jaquarii Roberson and all-conference left tackle Zach Tom, the Deacs will score a lot of points again behind Hartman, 1,200-yard receiver A.T. Perry and 2020 breakout receiver Donavon Greene (injured in 2021). But can new defensive coordinator Brad Lambert -- who flipped Purdue from 60th to 25th in defensive SP+ last season -- engineer a few added stops? Wake must replace three of six regulars on the defensive line, three of four in the secondary and leading tackler Luke Masterson at linebacker. Granted, replacing starters from a bad defense can sometimes be a "good news, bad news" situation, but someone still needs to step up. In end Rondell Bothroyd and linebacker Ryan Smenda Jr., Lambert inherits at least a couple of playmakers. But he needs some play-preventers, too, and that could be tricky with his line and secondary potentially leaning heavily on sophomores.

If you're a Wake fan and appalled at the barely-top-50 SP+ projection, I understand. But the Deacs managed to win the Atlantic while playing only three top-50 teams last year (and getting outscored by an average of 14 points in those games). SP+ adores Hartman and the offense. It just needs a reason to believe in the D. Maybe Lambert will provide it.
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Pilchard said:
Understand wanting to add to the playbook. To this day, never understood why the WF staff never took into account that Kendall Hinton started 13 games as QB before becoming a WR. You would think at some point, WF would want to leverage the fact that they had receiver that had the arm talent to play QB on the Power Conference level, but WF never designed and called a play for Hinton to throw after he moved to receiver.

That said, Clawson and Ruggiero leave no stone unturned to maximize success from tempo to diet. Really don't think they are neglecting something as basic as scheme and play calls. So, if jet sweeps and screens, would lead to more offensive production, WF would go there. Also, the bottom line for an offense is scoring. Not only is WF scoring more points per game, by far, than at any point in its history, if there was a metric that graded points per game based on an offense's collective recruiting ranking (which is why WF always lags in Connelly's CFB power rankings), would bet that WF would be #1 in the nation by a mile (last year's Clemson team would've been last by a mile). So, WF's offense maximizes scoring beyond anything in school history, and beyond anything that recruiting rankings (to the extent they are valid) would reasonably expect.

The bottom line is that the staff has learned that over time that maximum offense success is mostly based on perfecting the concepts that Ruggiero and Clawson have designed as opposed to constant tinkering of gameplans and play calls, which can lead to a wider variance from game to game, but not greater success over a season. FWIW, there are a ton of OCs that have amazing game scripts for the first drive or two of a game, but when the defense adjusts to the specific scheme for that game, the offense is screwed because they don't have a basic offense that they can count on.

Have no doubt that the staff is always innovating and evolving, including adding to or modifying the available offensive plays if that would increase the chances for success. Will be interested to see what tweaks are made for the upcoming season.
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I love Clawson but I'll never understand the bolded part. Never. When you're Wake, you have to use all the tools available. If folks want to call that LOWF, then so be it. But you have to use any advantage, no matter how small, to your benefit.
 
TheAbster said:
I love Clawson but I'll never understand the bolded part. Never. When you're Wake, you have to use all the tools available. If folks want to call that LOWF, then so be it. But you have to use any advantage, no matter how small, to your benefit.
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When your offensive strategy is one big trickeroo, maybe it’s too much to add additional layers of trickeroo.
 
I wonder how thick our playbook is? Seems like we have a relatively small amount of core plays/formations, and then a handful variations from there of each.
 
macktheknife said:
I wonder at times how much offensive scoring would convince people that is not our problem.
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Beating Clemson is our next big hurdle (and will be necessary most years to win the division/conference). We haven't scored over 30 vs. Clemson since 2005, and we've only scored over 20 twice. Need to figure out how to vary the game plan against the better, more aggressive defenses (see, also Pitt & Wisconsin 2nd halves).
 
In Clemson's last 60 games dating back to November 17, THREE TEAMS have scored more than 30 on Clemson:

2019 LSU: with Joe Burrow, and Jamar Chase, in what what may be the most talented team in NCAA Football history
2020 tOSU: with Justin Fields, three WRs that were first round picks (Garrett Wilson, Chris Olave, Jameson Williams), a TE that was a third round pick (Jeremy Ruckert) and RB Trey Sermon that was a third round pick.
2020 ND: with three OL and TE that were taken in the 3rd round or higher, a QB (Ian Book) was a 4th round pick, and RB (Kyren Williams) was a 5th round pick, and a TE Matthew Mayer who will be a #1 pick in the 2023 draft.

All three of those teams, made the BCS playoff.

During that span, which includes 36 games against ACC teams, no ACC team scored more against Clemson that WF did last year with 27. Those results scream that scheme is not keeping WF from scoring more points against Clemson. It's not having NFL ready players at essentially every spot on the offense. Keep thinking that running more orbit plays will make a difference against a defense with 1st round picks across the DL.
 
That’s pretty convincing. Beat Clemson and you have a really good team.
 
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