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Non-Political Coronavirus Thread

Rafi said:
Yeah, nobody is questioning if outdoor activity is safer than indoor. It is clearly much, much safer.

I addressed the vitamin D issue because 1) there is not any good evidence that vitamin D has any relevance to coronavirus, and 2) there are dangers of excess vitamin D, so I don't want to see anyone taking massive doses.
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It is possible to get too much Vitamin D with supplements but you gotta work at it. It is not possible to get too much vitamin D from sunshine and eating healthy foods.

Either way, we should be much concerned about vitamin D deficiency than getting too much vitamin D since about 42% of Americans are deficient.
 
knowell said:
It is possible to get too much Vitamin D with supplements but you gotta work at it. It is not possible to get too much vitamin D from sunshine and eating healthy foods.

Either way, we should be much concerned about vitamin D deficiency than getting too much vitamin D since about 42% of Americans are deficient.
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Sorry to side track the coronavirus discussion, but I just wanted to clarify that fewer than 6% of the US population is actually vitamin D deficient. This is a great example of not believing everything you read after a quick Google search. Here's an article in the New England Journal that explains vitamin D levels https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1608005
 
awaken said:
I had a grandmother who swore by Listerine.

Here's another: vitamin D
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/new...in-d-linked-covid-19-mortality-141201888.html

Until recently, I was Vitamin D deficient. Simply taking supplements did not help. What worked was taking Vitamin D along with a multi-vitamin.
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bttt another Vitamin D article

Equally cautious about the study is Dr. Kavita Patel, a nonresident fellow at the Brookings Institution and Yahoo Life medical contributor. “I have no reason to believe that there is some significant association with vitamin D alone and [COVID-19] mortality,” Patel says. “It just doesn’t make sense to me clinically.” That’s not to say, however, that she doesn’t consider vitamin D to be beneficial when it comes to respiratory infections.

“There have been studies in the past around the effects of vitamin D supplementation in decreasing the effects of the influenza virus,” Patel says. “So myself, and many doctors I know, started to give our families and ourselves [vitamin D] supplementation when this pandemic started, not knowing if this would be anything like the influenza virus, but we thought it wouldn’t be harmful.”
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So although not proven, some doctors started giving it to their families. :noidea:
 
Some doctors? Wouldn’t be persuaded by that.


camels_doctors_whiteshirt.jpg
 
I think we should definitely listen to Dr. Knowell. He’s been on top of things throughout this thread.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Yeah I mean it's clear that we are unwilling to do this, no matter the cost. So businesses will suffer, people will die, and we will wait for 12-18 months until the vaccine is readily available.
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Are people really going to get this vaccine? I'm definitely pro-vaccine in general, but this particular one is going to be a rushed-out, state-sanctioned money grab with minimal testing and no knowledge of any long-term side effects. There is no fucking way I'm taking that one to prevent a virus that will end up having a 99.9+% recovery rate for my age/health group. Think about the MMR shitshow before they finally got it right, or the Guardasil issues, it takes time to work through the vaccine process. Maybe that is significantly reduced by advanced AI and other current technology, but I would still think that the rate of something going wrong from the vaccine will likely be significantly higher than the rate of something going wrong from the virus.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Are people really going to get this vaccine? I'm definitely pro-vaccine in general, but this particular one is going to be a rushed-out, state-sanctioned money grab with minimal testing and no knowledge of any long-term side effects. There is no fucking way I'm taking that one to prevent a virus that will end up having a 99.9+% recovery rate for my age/health group. Think about the MMR shitshow before they finally got it right, or the Guardasil issues, it takes time to work through the vaccine process. Maybe that is significantly reduced by advanced AI and other current technology, but I would still think that the rate of something going wrong from the vaccine will likely be significantly higher than the rate of something going wrong from the virus.
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A lot to unpack here. I agree that the rushed out version will be bad and have a ton of side effects, that's why most health professionals are keeping the original timeline and not promising it by the end of the year (nearly impossible).

Your "I'm not taking that...to prevent a virus that will end up having a 99.9+% recovery rate for my age/health group" is literally an anti-vaccine stance. I have no idea what the mortality rate for mumps, measles, chicken pox, etc. is, but you don't take the vaccine to help YOU survive. You take it to achieve and maintain herd immunity, as well as to protect those who are immuno-compromised and cannot take the vaccine themselves. That's literally why people who are healthy and not at risk take the vaccine.

Your points about it being rushed and dangerous if not tested correctly are spot on, which is why it is going to take a while to get it out there, much less administered to people to achieve herd immunity. I am not going to take a vaccine that hasn't been thoroughly vetted and approved by health professionals, regardless of what Trump says about it being ready. I mean this is coming from a guy who either lies about taking hydrochloroquine, or actually takes hydrochloroquine as a "preventative" medication.

Once again, this is why testing and contact tracing are so important, and our unwillingness to become even remotely competent at it is unbelievable to me.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Are people really going to get this vaccine? I'm definitely pro-vaccine in general, but this particular one is going to be a rushed-out, state-sanctioned money grab with minimal testing and no knowledge of any long-term side effects. There is no fucking way I'm taking that one to prevent a virus that will end up having a 99.9+% recovery rate for my age/health group. Think about the MMR shitshow before they finally got it right, or the Guardasil issues, it takes time to work through the vaccine process. Maybe that is significantly reduced by advanced AI and other current technology, but I would still think that the rate of something going wrong from the vaccine will likely be significantly higher than the rate of something going wrong from the virus.
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No, no I will not due to some of the reasons you just described.
 
Healthcare workers will no doubt be required to take the first available vaccine.


Yep, plenty of reasons to be worried about it.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Are people really going to get this vaccine? I'm definitely pro-vaccine in general, but this particular one is going to be a rushed-out, state-sanctioned money grab with minimal testing and no knowledge of any long-term side effects. There is no fucking way I'm taking that one to prevent a virus that will end up having a 99.9+% recovery rate for my age/health group. Think about the MMR shitshow before they finally got it right, or the Guardasil issues, it takes time to work through the vaccine process. Maybe that is significantly reduced by advanced AI and other current technology, but I would still think that the rate of something going wrong from the vaccine will likely be significantly higher than the rate of something going wrong from the virus.
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What do you mean by the "MMR shitshow" and "Guardasil [sic] issues?"
 
Rafi said:
What do you mean by the "MMR shitshow" and "Guardasil [sic] issues?"
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The early versions (not the current version) of the MMR vaccine killed how many people during the initial roll outs until they got it right? Obviously that has been swept under the rug because anti-vaxxers have tried to hijack that to mean that the correct vaccine itself causes harm, but the early stages were an open test trial. Gardasil is still settling cases from injury. Smallpox vaccine scars. The first polio vaccine gave live polio to a few hundred thousand kids. This is not to say that vaccines don't work, it is to say that it takes time to find the correct iteration and they do often have side effects, especially in the early stages. And in this case I'm sure as shit not taking the first iteration that is Trumped out. After it has been around for 5 years, maybe, but not that first roll out. It is like buying a new car, you never buy the first iteration of a model as there are always bugs to be worked out.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
The early versions (not the current version) of the MMR vaccine killed how many people during the initial roll outs until they got it right? Obviously that has been swept under the rug because anti-vaxxers have tried to hijack that to mean that the correct vaccine itself causes harm, but the early stages were an open test trial. Gardasil is still settling cases from injury. Smallpox vaccine scars. The first polio vaccine gave live polio to a few hundred thousand kids. This is not to say that vaccines don't work, it is to say that it takes time to find the correct iteration and they do often have side effects, especially in the early stages. And in this case I'm sure as shit not taking the first iteration that is Trumped out. After it has been around for 5 years, maybe, but not that first roll out. It is like buying a new car, you never buy the first iteration of a model as there are always bugs to be worked out.
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I agree that the Trump factor makes everything questionable, but the studies are conducted by scientists and the data will be available for review. The first MMR vaccine was released in 1971 and was safe (and still is). Even measles vaccines before then (in the 1960s) were much safer than the disease itself. The Gardasil formulation hasn't changed (except 12 years after it was introduced, when several more HPV strains were added to it).
 
Rafi said:
I agree that the Trump factor makes everything questionable, but the studies are conducted by scientists and the data will be available for review. The first MMR vaccine was released in 1971 and was safe (and still is). Even measles vaccines before then (in the 1960s) were much safer than the disease itself. The Gardasil formulation hasn't changed (except 12 years after it was introduced, when several more HPV strains were added to it).
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Nowadays you can get an expert to say anything or interpret any data a certain way for the right $ or push, and the internet spins or flushes the finished result regardless of actual facts. The technology is far more advanced now, but I trust those scientists from the 50s, 60s, and 70s a hell of a lot more than anyone associated with the current administration when it comes to declaring that something is effective. This pandemic alone has just moved the pendulum farther and farther in both directions about the accuracy of the "experts" in today's world, both sides are full of shit. Everyone has an agenda and they are lying if they tell you they don't. After I've seen it work for a few years then maybe, but until then I'll take my 99.9+% chance with the virus.
 
Rafi said:
I agree that the Trump factor makes everything questionable, but the studies are conducted by scientists and the data will be available for review. The first MMR vaccine was released in 1971 and was safe (and still is). Even measles vaccines before then (in the 1960s) were much safer than the disease itself. The Gardasil formulation hasn't changed (except 12 years after it was introduced, when several more HPV strains were added to it).
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There is definitely concern that the rush to get a vaccine out could result in something like the following example from 2015 (from the NYT):

Early results don’t always stand. In 2015, the French drug company Sanofi began selling the first vaccine for dengue. The drug had made it through multiple research trials — although some researchers believed Sanofi had ignored worrisome signs. Sure enough, as children in the Philippines began using it, some contracted an even worse form of dengue. Today, use of the vaccine is highly restricted.
In recent testimony, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious-disease expert, noted that a coronavirus vaccine could suffer from the same problem.

The larger point is that drugs that look good in small, initial studies often look less good when they’re tested in more people.
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