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Nuggets fans noticed same thing about Buzz...

Strickland33 said:
If Rodney White gave half of the s**t that MJ did about ball, then he'd probably be playing in the All Star this weekend rather than in a fourth tier Asian league. White's one of the worst examples of wasted talent that I've seen.
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I think White is now incarcerated.
 
pourdeac said:
IMO this thread is more about Wellman's ability to choose a coach than Bzz, and that will certainly have an impact on our ability to turn us back into a proud basketball school.
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Let's look at the big picture. When Caldwell was hired, it seemed like a good move due to his background in the Penn State system. He was given a good amount of time to try to set a system in place. He did a good job with the passing game but was abhorrent with the run. Ultimately, was here too long.

Result: Decent hire at the time but didn't pan out

Grobe seemed like a good hire but many of us were more than willing to overlook his Ohio record because, well, they're Ohio. Has set multiple records and accounts for half of our bowl appearances.

Result: Good hire at the time and took us to heights never expected

Skip was a homerun hire from day one. Great excitement in the fan base was further increased during the press conference as Skip charmed us all. Skip proceeded to make us feel and play like an elite program for the majority of his time here. Clearly his defense was suspect (to put it incredibly kind) and we had a penchant for flaring out in March (unfortunately, nothing new for us).

Result: Great hire at the time but the wheels were beginning to come off towards the end of his career. Semi inconclusive ending since he did have top talent (so we thought) coming in when he died.

Dino was a common sense hire amidst great tragedy. Did well until late in the season when the emotional year and lack of experience took its toll. Compiled a very good record due to the talent on the court but was clearly in over his head.

Result: Smart hire at the time but ultimately shouldn't have been in charge past the first year.

Buzz has been a media and court clusterfuck since his name was first mentioned.

Result: Ultimate WTF hire when announced and has only gotten worse.

Total results: Out of the 5 money maker sport hires, 4 made sense at the time and the fan base was, at the very least, satiated during the announcement. The main problem is that Dino shouldn't have been kept on as long as he was. Strike one. Buzz should have never been hired period. Strike eleventy billion. Overall, Ron has a decent track record for hiring coaches.
 
Strickland33 said:
I realize that you're trying to be funny, but the above statement lacks anything resembling substance.

There's a reason that White, a former lotto pick, is toiling in obscurity in South Korea.

There's also a reason that it took Skita almost 10 years to figure out whether or not he wanted to play basketball in the first place.

[Redacted] isn't the reason, by the way.
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We're arguing the same point. Bz isn't to blame for Skita not producing. That's all I'm saying. Skita was so bad that the best coaches in the NBA couldn't have gotten him to be an effective player, much less Bz.
 
BillGeorge said:
There is no cure for alcoholism, panty waste. Please enlighten on his cure?
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deaconson said:
Let me try. He got a dui being dumb. He left wake and bzz. He made a statement "i need to take time and get well." (paraphrased) then a moment later be was not checking in to rehab he was enrolling in usc.
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He isn't an alcoholic. Since bzz wasn't going anywhere he did.
 
The Stig said:
Let's look at the big picture. When Caldwell was hired, it seemed like a good move due to his background in the Penn State system. He was given a good amount of time to try to set a system in place. He did a good job with the passing game but was abhorrent with the run. Ultimately, was here too long.

Result: Decent hire at the time but didn't pan out

Grobe seemed like a good hire but many of us were more than willing to overlook his Ohio record because, well, they're Ohio. Has set multiple records and accounts for half of our bowl appearances.

Result: Good hire at the time and took us to heights never expected

Skip was a homerun hire from day one. Great excitement in the fan base was further increased during the press conference as Skip charmed us all. Skip proceeded to make us feel and play like an elite program for the majority of his time here. Clearly his defense was suspect (to put it incredibly kind) and we had a penchant for flaring out in March (unfortunately, nothing new for us).

Result: Great hire at the time but the wheels were beginning to come off towards the end of his career. Semi inconclusive ending since he did have top talent (so we thought) coming in when he died.

Dino was a common sense hire amidst great tragedy. Did well until late in the season when the emotional year and lack of experience took its toll. Compiled a very good record due to the talent on the court but was clearly in over his head.

Result: Smart hire at the time but ultimately shouldn't have been in charge past the first year.

Buzz has been a media and court clusterfuck since his name was first mentioned.

Result: Ultimate WTF hire when announced and has only gotten worse.

Total results: Out of the 5 money maker sport hires, 4 made sense at the time and the fan base was, at the very least, satiated during the announcement. The main problem is that Dino shouldn't have been kept on as long as he was. Strike one. Buzz should have never been hired period. Strike eleventy billion. Overall, Ron has a decent track record for hiring coaches.
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Pretty good analysis though I am slightly more bullish on Bzd than you.

I do think because Ron has a decent track record of hiring coaches, he'll table this to give Bzd a fairer shake but more importantly, to better position Wake to get a high quality hire.

Check out the NY Times this morning. Interesting article on Shaka Smart. Reading that, I doubt he goes anywhere at the end of this year. He's got six frosh this year he made a commitment to ... has a quote in there where he says he feels like he has barely touched ground in Richmond ... just had a baby.

The article does beg the question: is there a good soul food restaurant in Winston?
 
"Coach [Redacted] was my first coach in the NBA. We learned a lot with each other. That first year, we made it to the playoffs after only winning 17 games the year before. He did a good job here and I enjoyed playing for him.
- Carmelo Anthony, Denver Nuggets


^ The most lukewarm endorsement ever. It was just a step above, "Coach [Redacted] was a coach in the NBA when I played in the NBA."
 
The Stig said:
Let's look at the big picture. When Caldwell was hired, it seemed like a good move due to his background in the Penn State system. He was given a good amount of time to try to set a system in place. He did a good job with the passing game but was abhorrent with the run. Ultimately, was here too long.

Result: Decent hire at the time but didn't pan out

Grobe seemed like a good hire but many of us were more than willing to overlook his Ohio record because, well, they're Ohio. Has set multiple records and accounts for half of our bowl appearances.

Result: Good hire at the time and took us to heights never expected

Skip was a homerun hire from day one. Great excitement in the fan base was further increased during the press conference as Skip charmed us all. Skip proceeded to make us feel and play like an elite program for the majority of his time here. Clearly his defense was suspect (to put it incredibly kind) and we had a penchant for flaring out in March (unfortunately, nothing new for us).

Result: Great hire at the time but the wheels were beginning to come off towards the end of his career. Semi inconclusive ending since he did have top talent (so we thought) coming in when he died.

Dino was a common sense hire amidst great tragedy. Did well until late in the season when the emotional year and lack of experience took its toll. Compiled a very good record due to the talent on the court but was clearly in over his head.

Result: Smart hire at the time but ultimately shouldn't have been in charge past the first year.

Buzz has been a media and court clusterfuck since his name was first mentioned.

Result: Ultimate WTF hire when announced and has only gotten worse.

Total results: Out of the 5 money maker sport hires, 4 made sense at the time and the fan base was, at the very least, satiated during the announcement. The main problem is that Dino shouldn't have been kept on as long as he was. Strike one. Buzz should have never been hired period. Strike eleventy billion. Overall, Ron has a decent track record for hiring coaches.
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STIG: I really like your well thought out post there. My main question is what if this happened to you or I at our jobs. For example we do 4 pretty good projects but really FUCK up on the last project that causes part of the corporation to tank. I would think that we would get fired wouldn't you?
 
Kmart is and was a douchebag. He knew that [Redacted] (correctly) didn't want him and did everything he could to get rid of him.

Kiki Vandeweghe intentionally let the press know that the coach didn't want Kmart. Kiki thought that Kmart was a great player not just a huge pain in the ass and wagered his and the team's future on an overpaid, maxed Kmart.

Kiki didn't like that [Redacted] told him the truth and got rid of him by stabbing him in the back.
I'm not saying [Redacted] would have lasted, but he was sabotaged by the GM.
 
ironwill24 said:
STIG: I really like your well thought out post there. My main question is what if this happened to you or I at our jobs. For example we do 4 pretty good projects but really FUCK up on the last project that causes part of the corporation to tank. I would think that we would get fired wouldn't you?
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While there would be great concern, we wouldn't be fired. There would be a good amount of pressure to fix it now (now being relative because for this analogy to work, the results for each project have to take place over the span of 1-2 years) or scrap it and do it over again. If we came in and really screwed up our first project, then yes (great argument for firing Buzz). Since our previous 4 projects were decent, with 2 of them bringing the corporation better publicity and greater return on investment than anything in the previous 170+ years, not to mention 1 of them still going strong and pulling in investments, we would be given leeway to fix it.
 
You describe the Caldwell project as "decent"? Just because "it seemed like a good idea at the time" doesn't mean it actually was.
 
PhDeac said:
You describe the Caldwell project as "decent"? Just because "it seemed like a good idea at the time" doesn't mean it actually was.
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I said that the hire was decent, not that the project was decent. It was clear that the focus was placed on the basketball wing during his tenure. that doesn't absolve him from only having 1 winning season or from Wellman keeping him here too long.
 
The Stig said:
I said that the hire was decent, not that the project was decent. It was clear that the focus was placed on the basketball wing during his tenure. that doesn't absolve him from only having 1 winning season or from Wellman keeping him here too long.
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So you're saying he did a good job of hiring a bad coach? Maybe you should explain a little further.
 
HeavyPetter said:
So you're saying he did a good job of hiring a bad coach? Maybe you should explain a little further.
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Sure thing. Shortly before he was hired here, he had developed a good (for Penn State) passing system as the QB coach with a better scoring ration over the run game in 89 and 91. Face value is that with Penn State being an old school run based offense, that is an impressive feat. Once he got here, he revamped (IIRC) the offense into a much more pass friendly offense. Since he was a football coach at Wake, most everyone was willing to overlook his first couple of seasons (I also seem to recall Ron telling him to take time to set up a system. He did the same with Grobe). We start setting pass records which is a good check but still have a 3 win season. In 97 we think that we're turning the corner as we're competitive and earn 5 wins (3 in conference). At this point, we've had really good basketball years so football is greatly overlooked by the fanbase and is viewed as a way to kill time until basketball. We have another 3 win year and Wellman begins to get fed up with the lack of production. We then turn in a 6 win season and a bowl victory which makes everyone realize that we can compete. The next year results in the last straw being broken as the players are so under-conditioned that we are gassed while playing App in the season opener and then proceed to lose 7 straight games before eking out a win against Duke.

Long story short (too late): there were face value signs that we could become good under Caldwell and the idea of being a mini-Penn State team appealed to Ron so we hired him. Long term experiment time was granted. Didn't work. We moved on.
 
Yeah, Caldwell at least looked like a decent hire at the time. [Redacted]? Not so much. The [Redacted] hire, in my mind, was therefore much worse.
 
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