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Obvious Improvement is Obvious: Our Team's In-Conference Stats

Where? How in the hell is year 4, a successful season defined by having a winning season? Especially when you look at that out of conference slate we played. This is just infuriating.
At ACC Media Day, he was asked about expectations for the upcoming season. He said, "To have more wins than losses and be in consideration for postseason play."

OH HEAVEN'S YES!
 
Too bad this thing didn't break loose.

FIGNAGJFLPNZKTP.20070405025758.JPG
 
I'm sorry. I see no improvement other than being able to beat the worst teams in the nation.
 
So I ask again- is it surprising that 7 guys, the highest ranked of which was rated in the 70s in the country (and 5 weren't top 100) have not ended up being very good basketball players?
 
Not at all. They are who the experts thought they were.
 
Travis' stats are a little bit worse because he hasn't been "used" as much. He's actually more efficient than ever, he just isn't involved as frequently as he has been in the past.
 
Lol at Travis being "used" wrong. 30+ minutes per ACC game, 2 or fewer buckets as our lone senior and supposedly best player in 6 of our 11 ACC games. 3 or fewer rebounds in 6 of our 11 ACC games.

Our sophomores are playing as well as Travis - Codi has just as many 20 point games in the ACC as Travis (2) despite an injury and Devin has as many double figure games as Travis (6) but they're overrated and Travis is underrated?

Travis not being "involved" often enough is on Travis. He himself has said exactly that. Just look at the NC State game - he starts tough and gets 3 two-point buckets in the first 6 minutes. He'd hit one more bucket, a 3 near the end of the first half, before going completely scoreless in the 2nd half going 0 for 1. Guess he was working too hard on defense giving up a career high Warren.
 
Obvious Improvement is Obvious: Our Team's In-Conference Stats 2012-2014

Lol at Travis being "used" wrong. 30+ minutes per ACC game, 2 or fewer buckets as our lone senior and supposedly best player in 6 of our 11 ACC games. 3 or fewer rebounds in 6 of our 11 ACC games.

Our sophomores are playing as well as Travis - Codi has just as many 20 point games in the ACC as Travis (2) despite an injury and Devin has as many double figure games as Travis (6) but they're overrated and Travis is underrated?

Travis not being "involved" often enough is on Travis. He himself has said exactly that. Just look at the NC State game - he starts tough and gets 3 two-point buckets in the first 6 minutes. He'd hit one more bucket, a 3 near the end of the first half, before going completely scoreless in the 2nd half going 0 for 1. Guess he was working too hard on defense giving up a career high Warren.

Easy tiger.

I'm assuming that Numbers was referring to usage rate and he's 100% correct. One could add usage, %FG/3FG, and a host of other possession-based stats, but that's a lot more work than I'm interested in doing on this topic.

To ignore the fact that Travis's role has changed significantly in Buzz's offense this year, given the evidence, is kind of ridiculous. Statistics paint a particular picture, one a bit more disinterested than "Travis sucks and his drop in production is because he doesn't try hard." It's about as disingenuous as citing player stats on the season to justify claims such as "Devin is the second best rebounder in the ACC," but who's counting?

Likewise, I don't see anybody comparing Travis and Devin's double figure scoring games as a basis for over or underrating them. Though, I do see you implying certain things based on those categories.


ETA: Did you look at the original post, DC? It doesn't seem like you're responding to the actual data I presented.
 
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Lol at Travis being "used" wrong. 30+ minutes per ACC game, 2 or fewer buckets as our lone senior and supposedly best player in 6 of our 11 ACC games. 3 or fewer rebounds in 6 of our 11 ACC games.

Our sophomores are playing as well as Travis - Codi has just as many 20 point games in the ACC as Travis (2) despite an injury and Devin has as many double figure games as Travis (6) but they're overrated and Travis is underrated?

Travis not being "involved" often enough is on Travis. He himself has said exactly that. Just look at the NC State game - he starts tough and gets 3 two-point buckets in the first 6 minutes. He'd hit one more bucket, a 3 near the end of the first half, before going completely scoreless in the 2nd half going 0 for 1. Guess he was working too hard on defense giving up a career high Warren.

I didn't say why he hasn't been used more, I was just saying that he's more efficient than ever, he's just not contributing to possessions as much. That could be the case for plenty of reasons: effort, different role in the offense, defense cracks down on him later in the game when he's more aggressive early, apathy, etc. It could literally be anything, but he's not contributing as much. He is however doing more in fewer possessions that he is in fact used on.
 
I mean, I get the argument. And I get the stat. But it can't be "literally anything" because you can watch the games. If you think [Redacted] drew up a bunch of plays for Travis against UNC for 16 points and a big win (for this team anyway), then decided his role should change and he should only make 2 field goals across the next 3 ACC games, I don't know what to tell you.

Travis is a pretty solid disappointment this year because he's so inconsistent. The only thing about his role that's changed is he's playing his actual position of small forward instead of having to play as an undersized 4 on a bad team. Love that he stuck it out for 4 shitty years and I get the love from the article about him, but the truth is he was a good player on a terrible team, and now he's a good player playing with some other good players in Codi and Devin - and his numbers are down because of it. Down meaning the worst of his 4 years here despite our cupcake schedule everyone likes to use to discount Codi and Devin's numbers.

It's weird that posters who were saying Codi wouldn't improve that much and this team would be much worse after CJ left unless Travis played great saying that the sophomores are disappointments. Travis didn't make a single field goal in our NC State win. Who thought that would be possible last year?

Personally I'm really looking forward to Shelton joining this group with a new coach, hopefully tacking on one more legit recruit. No need to torch the sophomores along with [Redacted]. Just let the man "resign" in disgrace and hope our 2 leading scorers stay...
 
^Regarding Travis, I think it's a combination of misuse/underutilization by Bzzzz and his half-speed motor. He's played much better the past few weeks, however, the FT issues last night notwithstanding.
 
So I ask again- is it surprising that 7 guys, the highest ranked of which was rated in the 70s in the country (and 5 weren't top 100) have not ended up being very good basketball players?

Dead on Sig. You recruit culture and you get this. You recruit NBA talent and you have a shot at making some noise. Those were the days.
 
Serious question - what do you mean when you say underutilized? He's #2 in minutes on the team. He's gotten double-digit shot attempts in 4 ACC games.

You're really saying during those games he was "used properly" but that the staff misused him against Pitt or UVA? Getting his tail kicked against the other small forward in the ACC isn't the same thing as being misused. I just don't see it.
 
I mean, I get the argument. And I get the stat. But it can't be "literally anything" because you can watch the games. If you think [Redacted] drew up a bunch of plays for Travis against UNC for 16 points and a big win (for this team anyway), then decided his role should change and he should only make 2 field goals across the next 3 ACC games, I don't know what to tell you.

So, to start - there is a huge middle ground between ignoring the basic and situational stats (what you're doing) and relying solely on numbers (what I'm doing). Both are idiotic positions, but I took mine for the purpose of putting some numbers behind the unequivocal stamp of improvement.

You also don't seem to understand what gameplanning entails. Buzz doesn't draw up plays for Travis and decide that his role should change - his role is what it is. In our offense, he's expected to stand around on the perimeter and wait for open looks and, if they're not there, either slash or pass. The evidence? 32.5% of his possessions come out of spot-up situation, 16.5 in transition and 11.5 off of screens this year. Last year, 24.1% from spot-up, 16.9 in transition, 13% cuts, 9.4% post-ups, and a measly 2.5% off of screens. Situational stats show that Travis has been converted into a perimeter player, where he visibly lacks the skills to do much outside of shoot and line drives to the hoop. He was a modified combo-forward last year and in year's past: that's changed. Further and in addition to numbers's stat that Travis sees a scant 13.0% of our team's possessions (career low by a significant margin) and that he's averaging a career high 1.21 pps, he is also averaging a career low 1.3 TOp40pa against a career high 1.9 assists.

Travis is a pretty solid disappointment this year because he's so inconsistent. The only thing about his role that's changed is he's playing his actual position of small forward instead of having to play as an undersized 4 on a bad team. Love that he stuck it out for 4 shitty years and I get the love from the article about him, but the truth is he was a good player on a terrible team, and now he's a good player playing with some other good players in Codi and Devin - and his numbers are down because of it. Down meaning the worst of his 4 years here despite our cupcake schedule everyone likes to use to discount Codi and Devin's numbers.

Did Travis sleep with a family member or something? I don't understand your Travis-hate. And technically, isn't anybody who has played for Buzz at Wake a good player on a terrible team? Wasn't CJ, technically? Why are Codi and Devin not good players on a terrible team? Have we ceased to be terrible, at a measly one win more than last year, and another year of experience for our guys?

His actual position? Says who? Read any scouting report on Travis and it says that he lacks anything resembling the handles and instincts to play wing. He never got better and the coach decides to throw him there anyway? Classic Buzz. Unless you believe that it was Travis's decision - that asshole! - and our coach is absolved of all blame.

RE: inconsistency - Codi has 6 games in single digits, Devin has 10, and Travis has 11. Our team is just inconsistent. The irony is that when we feature Travis, he gives us monster games. You're right - the effort hasn't been there, but he's just not a creator - never has been, never will be. When the light comes on for Devin and Codi, they give us monster games - but the ball is in their hands much more often.

Furthermore, the evidence doesn't point to his numbers being down because Travis and Devin's numbers are up. That's why I posted the damn numbers. In ACC play, everybody's numbers are down. Only Codi, of that list, is actually doing anything differently and 3 ppg obviously isn't a proxy for obvious improvement.

It's weird that posters who were saying Codi wouldn't improve that much and this team would be much worse after CJ left unless Travis played great saying that the sophomores are disappointments. Travis didn't make a single field goal in our NC State win. Who thought that would be possible last year?

You'll have to find quotations for this because it sounds like a straw man. Most predicted he would improve. Speaking for myself, I speculated that he would do well to hit his freshman per 40 minute pace adjusted averages as sophomore per game averages: He is currently averaging 14.4 points per game vs. 10.7 points per 40 minutes pace adjusted last year and, on average against the ACC this year - 11.1 points per game.

To counter your Travis example (where he actually scored five points) - Codi was 1/5 against USC and 3/5 against Notre Dame, for 5 and 8 points respectively. Who would have that possible last year? (See, I can do that, too.)
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Personally I'm really looking forward to Shelton joining this group with a new coach, hopefully tacking on one more legit recruit. No need to torch the sophomores along with [Redacted]. Just let the man "resign" in disgrace and hope our 2 leading scorers stay...

Me, too, but be careful what you wish for - history suggests that we should temper expectations about freshman PG ranked mid-80s (speculating about the final RSCI) and a redshirt freshman SF ranked mid-120s joining a bunch of similarly ranked players who are not exactly improving in terms of productivity that much. Likewise, we know there won't be another legit recruit for the new coach and in Shelton's year. There isn't time for it. There may be a 2015 recruit, but that depends on a lot of factors.

I'd counter that there's no need to torch the senior along with [Redacted]. Just let Travis graduate and hope that perhaps Codi and Devin can maintain their obvious improvement against better competition (in addition to sub-300 dregs) next year.
 
Serious question - what do you mean when you say underutilized? He's #2 in minutes on the team. He's gotten double-digit shot attempts in 4 ACC games.

You're really saying during those games he was "used properly" but that the staff misused him against Pitt or UVA? Getting his tail kicked against the other small forward in the ACC isn't the same thing as being misused. I just don't see it.

Devin has gotten his tail kicked by other big men in the ACC.

Codi has gotten his tail kicked by other point guards in the ACC.

Our team has gotten its tail kicked by other teams in the ACC.

Underutilized means playing 28+ minutes per game and seeing 13% of our overall possessions and 13% of our field goals. It also means that once you take Travis away from the basket, our staff has no idea what to do with him. I don't blame Travis for standing around - at least he seems to sort of care on defense. That's more than you can say about 1/2 of our team.
 
We need a new coach and we need a few of our bottom feeder scholarship players to transfer to open up some schollies for the new coach. If we get that we will be well on our way to becoming a solid program again. 2-3 years and we will have a chance to rebuild.
 
Tonight's individual performances:

Codi --> 9 points (4/10 2FG, 0/3 3FG, and 1/3 FT), 2 rebounds, 2 assists/3 turnovers.
Devin --> 2 points (1/5 2FG), 3 rebounds, 1 assist/2 turnovers, 1 block, and 4 fouls.

We're right on track with where we were last year. Take away our OOC and we're the same old 4-8 in ACC play for the second straight year...
 
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