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OFFICIAL 2023 Wake Forest Demon Deacons Football Thread

TimmyClutch said:


But I thought the offensive line was sooo bad?

Maybe Phil Steele knows something
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One man does not make a unit and the line was not good. Anybody with a functioning brain knew that. It certainly wasn't all their fault, Griffis certainly made the line look worse than they were sometimes, but they also did a decent job of making themselves look bad at times.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
One man does not make a unit and the line was not good. Anybody with a functioning brain knew that. It certainly wasn't all their fault, Griffis certainly made the line look worse than they were sometimes, but they also did a decent job of making themselves look bad at times.
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Having a QB that ran right into the rush makes a line look bad. Having a QB that has one of the lowest pass rush avoidance stats in D1 football makes a line look bad. One guy from the line being named an All American on a 4-8 team during a historically bad offensive season is pretty impressive. I would also ask, if our O-line was truly so bad, then why are we only bringing in 1 transfer to replace Jurgens, rather than multiple guys to replace multiple starters?

It would appear that Clawson is comfortable bringing back the rest of the O-line and it does not need a wholesale change, like the QB position. So maybe the Oline wasn't so terrible after all, maybe it was just a QB.
 
TimmyClutch said:
Having a QB that ran right into the rush makes a line look bad. Having a QB that has one of the lowest pass rush avoidance stats in D1 football makes a line look bad. One guy from the line being named an All American on a 4-8 team during a historically bad offensive season is pretty impressive. I would also ask, if our O-line was truly so bad, then why are we only bringing in 1 transfer to replace Jurgens, rather than multiple guys to replace multiple starters?

It would appear that Clawson is comfortable bringing back the rest of the O-line and it does not need a wholesale change, like the QB position. So maybe the Oline wasn't so terrible after all, maybe it was just a QB.
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No it wasn't just the QB, come on man. How do you know we didn't try to get more and couldn't? Acting like the O-line was a good unit this year because one guy got an AA award is foolish. We've had guys win individual awards throughout our history that were on bad teams, this is just another. Congrats to Jurgens though.
 
Wake Forest 2023: Sacks allowed 128th, Rushing Offense 95th, enough said.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
No it wasn't just the QB, come on man. How do you know we didn't try to get more and couldn't? Acting like the O-line was a good unit this year because one guy got an AA award is foolish. We've had guys win individual awards throughout our history that were on bad teams, this is just another. Congrats to Jurgens though.
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My brother, the only thing we are changing is the QB. We are bringing in 1 transfer on the Oline, and he is a one year rental at tackle. if the line was truly the cause of how bad this year was, wouldn't the staff be bringing in more guys, even if they were reaches? We are bringing back the same staff and most of the same starters. What is the other rational, we thought CB and LB were more important needs? And for sacks allowed, I am happy to watch every games with you and judge whose fault each and every sack is. As for rush offense, didn't PFF just name Wake the top offensive line for run blocking in the ACC and No. 10 nationally?
 
liveanddiedeac said:
No it wasn't just the QB, come on man. How do you know we didn't try to get more and couldn't? Acting like the O-line was a good unit this year because one guy got an AA award is foolish. We've had guys win individual awards throughout our history that were on bad teams, this is just another. Congrats to Jurgens though.
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I do not think the OL was great, but just compare the sack numbers of Griffis vs Kern/Marucci. Griffis was a huge problem that drastically inflated those numbers.
 
TimmyClutch said:
My brother, the only thing we are changing is the QB. We are bringing in 1 transfer on the Oline, and he is a one year rental at tackle. if the line was truly the cause of how bad this year was, wouldn't the staff be bringing in more guys, even if they were reaches? We are bringing back the same staff and most of the same starters. What is the other rational, we thought CB and LB were more important needs? And for sacks allowed, I am happy to watch every games with you and judge whose fault each and every sack is. As for rush offense, didn't PFF just name Wake the top offensive line for run blocking in the ACC and No. 10 nationally?
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We were 95th in the country in rushing offense! I don't care if some slub named us #1 run blocking unit. I guess you're saying Ellison, Claiborne and Carney was the issue then? Again, how do you know we didn't try to bring in additional OL through the portal? The line was not good, they just weren't. Was that the only problem or even the worst problem, no course not, but to act like they were just fine is just not based in facts.
 
deacdixieboy said:
I do not think the OL was great, but just compare the sack numbers of Griffis vs Kern/Marucci. Griffis was a huge problem that drastically inflated those numbers.
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Yeah sure Griffis took too many sacks, but it wasn't like Kern and Mooch were sitting back in a lot of clean pockets either. I'm not saying the line was complete garbage, but to act like our line play was good just because one guy got an award is foolish. We need a good bit of improvement there and a lot of other places.
 
deacdixieboy said:
I do not think the OL was great, but just compare the sack numbers of Griffis vs Kern/Marucci. Griffis was a huge problem that drastically inflated those numbers.
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I posted this all of 1 page ago. I think my takeaway is the line was a big problem that Griffis made even a bit worse.

Pass attempts per sack:
Griffis - 5.9
Kern - 8.4
Santino - 7.0

Maye - 14.7
Travis - 23.1
Klubnik - 20.7
Leonard - 23.6
 
liveanddiedeac said:
We were 95th in the country in rushing offense! I don't care if some slub named us #1 run blocking unit. I guess you're saying Ellison, Claiborne and Carney was the issue then? Again, how do you know we didn't try to bring in additional OL through the portal. The line was not good, they just weren't. Was that the only problem or even the worst problem, no course not, but to act like they were just fine is just not based in facts.
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We were 95th in rushing offense because we couldn't stay on the field and were playing from behind most games. Whether they tried to bring in additional guys or not, we are going into next season with the bulk of our Oline returning. So either the staff is ok with that or they have already given up on next season. Which do you think is more likely?
 
Haros said:
I posted this all of 1 page ago. I think my takeaway is the line was a big problem that Griffis made even a bit worse.

Pass attempts per sack:
Griffis - 5.9
Kern - 8.4
Santino - 7.0

Maye - 14.7
Travis - 23.1
Klubnik - 20.7
Leonard - 23.6
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Facts are a bitch aren't they? And again, how do you know we didn't try to bring in more OL through the portal?
 
TimmyClutch said:
We were 95th in rushing offense because we couldn't stay on the field and were playing from behind most games. Whether they tried to bring in additional guys or not, we are going into next season with the bulk of our Oline returning. So either the staff is ok with that or they have already given up on next season. Which do you think is more likely?
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When you can't run the ball effectively, that usually causes the offense to not be able to stay on the field.:rolleyes: So, you're argument is that even if the staff tried to bring in others and couldn't, the fact we're going into next season with the bulk of our O-line shows the staff is ok with that??? If they tried and couldn't get additional OL, then what choice do they have than to go into next season with the bulk of existing OL??? I mean I guess the staff could just quit, but they probably like the paychecks.
 
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TimmyClutch said:
So comparing our motley crew to Travis and Maye, and your take away is the Offensive Line is the difference?
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Leonard was the best in that regard and he played for Duke. Shouldn't our Oline be somewhere in the same stratosphere as Duke's?
 
The solution isn't necessarily to ship out the guys who are potential returnees and replace them with guys from the portal. The portal doesn't have a lot of good offensive linemen. Those guys (mostly) seem to stay where they signed and work and develop.

Wake is losing two starters from the 2023 line, LT and LG. One, the LT, is being replaced by a portal transfer. The other presumably will be replaced by either one of the guys who rotated at RG after Sharpe went out injured or Sharpe himself. The other spots will be filled by returning starters from 2023.

There may have been a weird dynamic with Pettibon making the line calls while Jurgens was still present. That won't exist in 2024. Unit cohesion may be better in 2024.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Leonard was the best in that regard and he played for Duke. Shouldn't our Oline be somewhere in the same stratosphere as Duke's?
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Leonard played in 7 games, 3 of which were against Lafayette, Northwestern and UCONN. Leonard also averages 6 yards a carry this season, which none of our QBs could fathom.
 
TimmyClutch said:
Leonard played in 7 games, 3 of which were against Lafayette, Northwestern and UCONN. Leonard also averages 6 yards a carry this season, which none of our QBs could fathom.
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Hank doesn't look like a runner from his stats, so you better hope our "good" (In your opinion) O-line gets even "better" next year if he's the guy taking snaps. The Oline was a problem, in a list of problems this past season. To dispute that is just not looking at facts or being honest.
 
liveanddiedeac said:
Hank doesn't look like a runner from his stats, so you better hope our "good" (In your opinion) O-line gets even "better" next year if he's the guy taking snaps. The Oline was a problem, in a list of problems this past season. To dispute that is just not looking at facts or being honest.
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Then it doesn't seem to be a problem that staff will have addressed prior to starting next season. Also Phil Steele's and PFF opinion.
 
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