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Official OGBoards Golf Thread

DCDeac said:
Just as background, and Tigerswood hit on this some, since a lot of people just assume your handicap index is an average of all your scores and/or playing off a handicap makes for fair competition...

First, only your best 8 of 20 scores count. It's very easy to lower your index, very hard to raise it. Scratch or better guys have to either give up completely on ever shooting under par rounds on the regular or they are never going to really jack up their handicaps to any meaningful level for handicap play. Tossing in the occasional fake score literally makes no difference at all unless you really commit to throwing in a ton of them.

Second, simply put - the better you are the harder it is to beat your handicap. The USGA had some odds posted for how likely it is to beat your handicap, but even those are skewed (and start at 0-5 as a bucket). A +1 should beat his index by 3 or 4 strokes like once a year if you're playing twice a week. An 8/9 is closer to 1 in 30 rounds, especially if that player is one of the folks we're talking about that can easily clean up a few strokes here and there when playing an important round.

On top of all that, a ton of these tournaments are match play or have some way of ensuring that blow-up holes don't ruin someone's tournament, otherwise no high cappers would play and there'd be no money/fun to be had. But again, for consistent low cap players, it's just another edge given to the high cappers. You make 3 pars and go 1 down to a guy who goes quad/bogey/par. There's just no real point to shuffling around in that plus index world to win handicapped fields.
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Do you have a link for this? Would definitely like to check it out (and potentially share!).
 
TAG1615 said:
I don't know you, your friends, or your club. I also rarely play tournament golf. But if I play 40 rounds a year with a guy and he thinks I'm cheating, I would expect him to come to me about that before snitching to a random club pro. I would have to imagine that that the club pro is really annoyed with you know for dumping this on his plate. It is a pretty brutal position for the club pro to have to call out a member for cheating when that member partially pays his salary/bonusses.

Edited to add: I hope it all works out for the best. Tricky situation, for sure.
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I hear you on the first part, and disagree strongly on the second part. That is part of the club pro's job to deal with situations like this. I would imagine it makes it easier for him if (multiple) members come with concerns vs. having to find aberrations by himself and call out members. He can't just ignore stuff like double posting. It is greatly affecting the club tournaments and overall member experience. Some clubs take this extremely seriously. If its a smaller club, maybe its not as much but it will be dealt with I'm sure. And it won't be the first/last time it happens there.
 
tigerswood said:
Typically, for non-flighted tournaments, it would be like top 4 or 5 net, top 2 or 3 gross. Net payout overall would be a bit bigger with a couple more slots paid, but individual payouts similar. I assume the thinking is it's not fair for ~100 players competing for 4 net spots while, realistically, there are maybe 8 players with a chance at low gross.

Flighted tournaments might pay 1st, 2nd Net and 1st Gross per flight plus overall prizes.
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That seems totally reasonable to me.

I don't know if a 12 hcp has much to gripe about if a +1 wins gross more often than they win net, especially if there are more net "in the money" placings. That person is just much more skilled at the game, so their odds of winning gross have to be higher than a less skilled player, and the pool of people that can compete there would naturally be smaller.
 
tigerswood said:
Do you have a link for this? Would definitely like to check it out (and potentially share!).
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So there's an older USGA "exceptional score probability" table and another for the odds of consecutive rounds better than your index. The consecutive one is great for multi day tournaments when you need to adjust folks who maybe had a sketchy index or just sent in some scorecards. They pop up with a quick google.

What I can't find is the even better one from a couple years ago that i used when I ran an event. The USGA one splits into buckets by 0-6, 6-13, etc. The groups are too large imho. Someone took the actual data and broke it out stroke by stroke and also had a slope/rating component to it. Playing extremely difficult tees/courses helped somewhat, but that 8 index vs. a scratch was even more brutal than the USGA one makes it look. When an 8 shoots a pair of 75's on a 6,500 yard course maybe someone raises an eyebrow, but barely. Good luck to the scratch guy trying to go 67/67 just to tie. Or more likely needing 7 or 8 birdies each round if it's match play.

The other way to destroy those tourneys is to find a 20 index who can chip and putt but sucks with driver. Leave the driver in the car, coach them through safety tee shots and a bunch of decent par looks. Most tourneys throw in an 80% of course handicap calculation to fix that or those folks will run away with the net if the course isn't overly long or difficult.
 
Yeah SD3, doesn't seem like you solved the issue though, since he's still gonna post scores when using a format when he shouldn't. So I'm guessing you gotta still watch him, and when he does that again call him out on it. It's a weird spot, similar to in college when we caught a dude who was an offensive lineman on our football team in our regular poker game cheating us all in cards when he was dealing off the bottom of the deck, and two of the other dudes in our game were fellow offensive lineman and obviously had to play with the dude every day.
 
stugotz said:
Yeah SD3, doesn't seem like you solved the issue though, since he's still gonna post scores when using a format when he shouldn't. So I'm guessing you gotta still watch him, and when he does that again call him out on it. It's a weird spot, similar to in college when we caught a dude who was an offensive lineman on our football team in our regular poker game cheating us all in cards when he was dealing off the bottom of the deck, and two of the other dudes in our game were fellow offensive lineman and obviously had to play with the dude every day.
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Oof, that seems a hair more direct than this FWIW. Sounds like an ass beating is directly needed in that case, haha. But yeah, you're right. At least at this point he knows the pro shop is watching. I imagine that will be enough, but like you mentioned, worth keeping an eye on as well.
 
You'd have to be an idiot to start posting a bunch of 80+ scores as a +1 and think no one is going to notice... And the club champ? Come on!
 
DCDeac said:
So there's an older USGA "exceptional score probability" table and another for the odds of consecutive rounds better than your index. The consecutive one is great for multi day tournaments when you need to adjust folks who maybe had a sketchy index or just sent in some scorecards. They pop up with a quick google.

What I can't find is the even better one from a couple years ago that i used when I ran an event. The USGA one splits into buckets by 0-6, 6-13, etc. The groups are too large imho. Someone took the actual data and broke it out stroke by stroke and also had a slope/rating component to it. Playing extremely difficult tees/courses helped somewhat, but that 8 index vs. a scratch was even more brutal than the USGA one makes it look. When an 8 shoots a pair of 75's on a 6,500 yard course maybe someone raises an eyebrow, but barely. Good luck to the scratch guy trying to go 67/67 just to tie. Or more likely needing 7 or 8 birdies each round if it's match play.

The other way to destroy those tourneys is to find a 20 index who can chip and putt but sucks with driver. Leave the driver in the car, coach them through safety tee shots and a bunch of decent par looks. Most tourneys throw in an 80% of course handicap calculation to fix that or those folks will run away with the net if the course isn't overly long or difficult.
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My best friend is like this, but the opposite. He hits absolute bombs off the tee and is money with 3-6 iron. He isn't horrible with shorter irons and wedge, but is by far the worst putter you have ever seen. It's actually comical to watch him hit a 330 yard drive down the pipe, hit a 210 yard iron to the center of the green, and then 3 putt. He gets pumped thinking he has a chance at eagle, but ends up missing a 2 footer for birdie by 6 inches. He makes a great captains choice or scramble partner, though.
 
Screamindemon3 said:
Oof, that seems a hair more direct than this FWIW. Sounds like an ass beating is directly needed in that case, haha. But yeah, you're right. At least at this point he knows the pro shop is watching. I imagine that will be enough, but like you mentioned, worth keeping an eye on as well.
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Can't believe no one hasn't asked this, but does he cheat on the course? If he's willing to flat out lie about scores, I'm betting he "finds" a lot of wayward shots near hazards/the OB line. Or the classic scramble partner cheat of slapping at the further away putt first and counting it if it goes in.
 
tigerswood said:
Can't believe no one hasn't asked this, but does he cheat on the course? If he's willing to flat out lie about scores, I'm betting he "finds" a lot of wayward shots near hazards/the OB line. Or the classic scramble partner cheat of slapping at the further away putt first and counting it if it goes in.
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Absolutely to both. I always follow him into the woods to look for lost balls in competitive play.

“I’ll see y’all in the cart” after putting a ball in from the fringe in captains choice.
 
skinnydeac said:
My best friend is like this, but the opposite. He hits absolute bombs off the tee and is money with 3-6 iron. He isn't horrible with shorter irons and wedge, but is by far the worst putter you have ever seen. It's actually comical to watch him hit a 330 yard drive down the pipe, hit a 210 yard iron to the center of the green, and then 3 putt. He gets pumped thinking he has a chance at eagle, but ends up missing a 2 footer for birdie by 6 inches. He makes a great captains choice or scramble partner, though.
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i'm a high handicapper that can hit bombs and putt - but everything in between is trash

for instance - this weekend on the first hole i played (a par 4), i smashed a drive 328 yards (to be fair, got a really nice roll and downwind) but still scored a 9
 
Screamindemon3 said:
Absolutely to both. I always follow him into the woods to look for lost balls in competitive play.

“I’ll see y’all in the cart” after putting a ball in from the fringe in captains choice.
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Good lord. You need to distance yourself from this guy.
 
Screamindemon3 said:
Absolutely to both. I always follow him into the woods to look for lost balls in competitive play.

“I’ll see y’all in the cart” after putting a ball in from the fringe in captains choice.
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if he's a good friend, i think you gotta talk to him about all this stuff

he's a grown ass man, and sounds like you're not going to be playing with him as much anyway (without saying anything), so you might as well try to help
 
Screamindemon3 said:
Karma got us all on at Maple Chase maybe 10 years ago? Was a fun time



What’s funny is he’s very well respected at the club and in the community. Has people fooled on the course I suppose
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This dude is weird as fuck. He's a vanity and sandbagger at the same time.
 
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