• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Official Wake - Yale Game Thread

IrishSlim said:
Again, RJ, wanting Bzzz to fail and thinking he will are separate and distinct.
Click to expand...

Calling anything under 15 wins ubdersachieving this season is outrageous.

Thinknig a coach who can't win that much with FOUR players who are in the NBA would do anything with an undertalented team is unrealistic beyond belief.
 
To sum up, it appears Irish has expectations that are being met and are significantly better than what we accomplished last year but this improvement does not lead him to believe that Bz can succeed enough at Wake. I'm not sure he's acknowledged that we have less "talent" this year but that is reasonably an implied understanding as he hasn't argued against it.

He feels Bz has a ceiling which is not related to the coach's charisma. This is based on something he hasn't yet disclosed but appears to involve Bz's prior coaching records which were limited to 3 year stints or less. He has not acknowledged the trajectory of most of the programs he coached or the fact that he's been employed in the NBA and college ranks for many years and has ringing endorsements from some of the greatest coaches and players in the NBA.

His opinion on Bz will not change even if we win our next game and then go 6-10 in the ACC as he's already on record as saying Buzzout despite his expecting us to win up to 16 games this year.

I'm not trying to change his mind because it's made up already and closed for reconsideration. However, I think he will be eating crow in the future and I would like to know why he's so sure Bz has a ceiling at mid-level ACC success.
 
RJKarl said:
Calling anything under 15 wins ubdersachieving this season is outrageous.

Thinknig a coach who can't win that much with FOUR players who are in the NBA would do anything with an undertalented team is unrealistic beyond belief.
Click to expand...

Yes.
 
Doggus said:
To sum up, it appears Irish has expectations that are being met and are significantly better than what we accomplished last year but this improvement does not lead him to believe that Bz can succeed enough at Wake. I'm not sure he's acknowledged that we have less "talent" this year but that is reasonably an implied understanding as he hasn't argued against it.

He feels Bz has a ceiling which is not related to the coach's charisma. This is based on something he hasn't yet disclosed but appears to involve Bz's prior coaching records which were limited to 3 year stints or less. He has not acknowledged the trajectory of most of the programs he coached or the fact that he's been employed in the NBA and college ranks for many years and has ringing endorsements from some of the greatest coaches and players in the NBA.

His opinion on Bz will not change even if we win our next game and then go 6-10 in the ACC as he's already on record as saying Buzzout despite his expecting us to win up to 16 games this year.

I'm not trying to change his mind because it's made up already and closed for reconsideration. However, I think he will be eating crow in the future and I would like to know why he's so sure Bz has a ceiling at mid-level ACC success.
Click to expand...

Lot of words being put into my mouth here, and I disagree with much of it. My 13-16 wins expectation was at the beginning of the year, yet you're inserting (the high number, how convenient) it into our current situation. 6-10 in the ACC this year would be a pleasant surprise and a good sign, for sure. Further, my mind is definitely not closed for reconsideration, and I'd happily eat crow if [Redacted] turns into the mythical "answer."

As to why I'm so certain his ceiling is mid-level? History. He's never done anything to suggest he's capable of anything more.
 
Irish, on this one subject, you are totally incapable of providing an objective viewpoint.
 
RJKarl said:
Irish, on this one subject, you are totally incapable of providing an objective viewpoint.
Click to expand...

We're fans. I doubt anyone on this board is capable of providing a fully objective viewpoint. Except for maybe Moonz, because he's devoted his life to parody.
 
IrishSlim said:
Why would I continue arguing about shades of grey with someone who couldn't figure that out? Not trying to be rude (okay, yes I am), but we're not getting anywhere. At least this way, something concrete is taken from this exchange. If you're looking for a vocal mod or admin that feels similarly to you about Bzzz, Cookout is your best bet.
Click to expand...

Couldn't figure what out? Really no need to be rude just because you're having trouble articulating your position...
 
Strickland33 said:
Couldn't figure what out? Really no need to be rude just because you're having trouble articulating your position...
Click to expand...

Mmm hmm. My position, that you've attempted to redefine and reframe multiple times because you understood it but disagree with how I term it, is now not being articulated strongly. Gotcha.

You couldn't figure out what 7>3 meant, then couldn't figure out what 7 mods > 3 mods meant, and now presumably can't follow my 1-4 instructions for figuring out which mods aren't BuzzOut. I can't tell if you're being obstinate or dense, and have stopped caring.
 
IrishSlim said:
Mmm hmm. My position, that you've attempted to redefine and reframe multiple times because you understood it but disagree with how I term it, is now not being articulated strongly. Gotcha.

You couldn't figure out what 7>3 meant, then couldn't figure out what 7 mods > 3 mods meant, and now presumably can't follow my 1-4 instructions for figuring out which mods aren't BuzzOut. I can't tell if you're being obstinate or dense, and have stopped caring.
Click to expand...

Got your point after the first explanation. Not sure where thats coming from.
 
IrishSlim said:
Lot of words being put into my mouth here, and I disagree with much of it. My 13-16 wins expectation was at the beginning of the year, yet you're inserting (the high number, how convenient) it into our current situation. 6-10 in the ACC this year would be a pleasant surprise and a good sign, for sure. Further, my mind is definitely not closed for reconsideration, and I'd happily eat crow if [Redacted] turns into the mythical "answer."

As to why I'm so certain his ceiling is mid-level? History. He's never done anything to suggest he's capable of anything more.
Click to expand...

So if my assumptions were wrong, for us to win up to 16 games I guess you figured we would be 10-3 or 11-2 right now and then only win 3-5 in the ACC?
To get to 16 wins you had to forsee us winning 5 or 6 games in the ACC or be almost flawless in Nov-Dec. Either way, those numbers are better than what 90% of us figured was likely or possible I'd bet.
OK. Can't argue with his W-L history. But there's also not really a failure you can point at to say he hit his ceiling. He seems to have either moved on or fired in the case of the Nuggets.
 
IrishSlim said:
We're fans. I doubt anyone on this board is capable of providing a fully objective viewpoint. Except for maybe Moonz, because he's devoted his life to parody.
Click to expand...

Devoted his life to parody? Or his life is a parody?

It's not necessary to be fully objective, you have less than zero objectivity when the subject is [Redacted].
 
Doggus said:
So if my assumptions were wrong, for us to win up to 16 games I guess you figured we would be 10-3 or 11-2 right now and then only win 3-5 in the ACC?
To get to 16 wins you had to forsee us winning 5 or 6 games in the ACC or be almost flawless in Nov-Dec. Either way, those numbers are better than what 90% of us figured was likely or possible I'd bet.

After the fact, I said "probably 13-16." Only because Strickland asked. Taking a look at our schedule, 9 or 10 wins right now isn't as impressive as you're trying to make it sound. Again, it's a huge improvement over last year, but it's not like we dealt with murderer's row or anything.

OK. Can't argue with his W-L history. But there's also not really a failure you can point at to say he hit his ceiling. He seems to have either moved on or fired in the case of the Nuggets.
Click to expand...

Right. So nothing in his history to suggest he's capable of what we're aspiring for. Like I said.
 
RJKarl said:
Devoted his life to parody? Or his life is a parody?

It's not necessary to be fully objective, you have less than zero objectivity when the subject is [Redacted].
Click to expand...

Whatever you say, Brett Easton Ellis. Whatever you say.
 
RazorWFU said:
It's amazing that two guys that are Mods/Admins on a Wake Forest Message Board just do not get what it takes to build a basketball program from the ground up. If I was Jeff [Redacted], I would be awfully worried that these two guys are so obsessed with him.
Click to expand...

I at least know how to build a message forum from the ground up. And by "I", I of course mean the smart admins here. I just know how to buy software.

BUT I'M DAMN GOOD AT DOING THAT.
 
IrishSlim said:
Whatever you say, Brett Easton Ellis. Whatever you say.
Click to expand...

It is ridiculous to think a team that won eight games, had a bad recruiting year and lost three of it's top 8/9 players would nearly double its win total.

The fact you can't admit this shows your blind spot.
 
RJKarl said:
It is ridiculous to think a team that won eight games, had a bad recruiting year and lost three of it's top 8/9 players would nearly double its win total.

The fact you can't admit this shows your blind spot.
Click to expand...

It's not that ridiculous, Michael Lewis, given the context of last season's flameout and this season's OOC schedule.

ETA: nearly double? Check the percentages on that, RJ. Not close to nearly doubling.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top