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Ongoing gun violence/injury thread

If slaughtered 1st graders didn’t convince lawmakers, nothing will.

Nothing will change until America stops voting for Republicans.
 
bym051d said:
If slaughtered 1st graders didn’t convince lawmakers, nothing will.

Nothing will change until America stops voting for Republicans.
Click to expand...

Sadly, I agree. Gun control is one issue that I've completely given up on, as it's clear that even mass shootings in elementary schools won't move the needle for far too many people. Gotta have their guns, no matter what. Might need them when the evil Deep State comes after them. Maybe things will change over time, but right now I don't see even minimal gun control legislation passing nationally or in any state with a GOP legislature or governor. In fact, it's just the opposite - they keep passing laws to make it easier to own guns and more difficult to do anything to limit gun ownership. And so these horrifying things will continue to happen, and will be shrugged off or ignored by gun nuts.
 
I am a conservative republican but agree that gun laws need to change. I have difficulty deciding what laws should change and how to have the most impact on gun deaths. Where do you focus your efforts?

Suicide deaths?
- Increase wait times for hand guns
- Require background checks and classes like for concealed carry permits for all handgun purchases
- Improve mental health services
- Create and encourage the use of improved physical security devices for handguns

Crime and gang-related shootings?
- Many of the same changes re: handguns
- Implement identification serial numbers on handguns that are impossible to remove (internal? electronic?)
- Enforce registration requirements that tie a person to the serial number - and add liability for crimes committed with a gun registered to you (Maybe this exists? I have never heard of it?)

Removing handguns from circulation would help both of the above
- Create meaningful funds for buy-back programs - significant enough to motivate turn-ins - would have to be $Bs...

Mass shootings?
- Require enhanced background checks and/or concealed carry-like classes to purchase large-capacity magazines
- Though assault-type weapons are not inherently more dangerous than other semi-automatic rifles, they are disproportionately represented in mass shootings - I guess it is a psychological thing. So, we should discourage their circulation. Again, perhaps enhanced background checks, waiting periods, serial number registrations requirements, liability for crimes later committed, etc. would help - maybe an assault-weapon tax to increase cost?
- Improved mental-health screenings and treatment
- Suppressors are already extremely difficult to get so I don't think they are an issue - some with fully automatic weapons.

Kids shooting other kids - at schools and otherwise
- Anti-bullying campaigns
- Better trained counselors at schools
- Liability for parents when their kids take their guns and shoot someone - something to encourage parents to secure their weapons
This one really bothers me because I wonder what it would take for a young teenager to get to the point where they pick up a weapon and kill other kids. Access to the weapon is obviously a problem but the question of how they get to that point is vital. Assuming this doesn't happen in other countries because there aren't so many guns around, then do those kids have similar break-downs or issues? If not - what is different here?

Anyway - these are just a few off-the-cuff thoughts. Take them for what they are worth...
 
PONTIAC, Mich. — Prosecutors in suburban Detroit on Wednesday charged a 15-year-old boy with terrorism and first-degree murder in connection with the deaths of four of his classmates in a shooting spree on Tuesday at Oxford High School.

The boy, Ethan Crumbley, was being charged as an adult, said Karen D. McDonald, the Oakland County prosecutor. In addition to four counts of first-degree murder and one count of terrorism causing death, Mr. Crumbley faces seven counts of assault with intent to murder and 12 counts of possession of a firearm in the commission of a felony.

Ms. McDonald said she is also considering charges against the suspect’s parents, who had a face-to-face meeting with school officials on Tuesday — roughly three hours before the shooting — about the suspect’s behavior in the classroom, according to the Oakland County sheriff, Michael Bouchard.

Sheriff Bouchard said the suspect had also met with school officials about concerning behavior on Monday, the day before the shooting. He declined to specify the nature of that behavior, but said law enforcement agencies had not been notified.

The sheriff said the district had no record that the suspect had been bullied at school, and he did not believe specific students were targeted in the attack.

During a video arraignment on Wednesday afternoon, authorities told a judge that investigators had recovered two separate videos from the suspect’s cellphone, which were made the night before the incident. He talked about shooting and killing students the next day at Oxford High. A journal in his backpack also detailed his desire to shoot up the school, authorities said.

The announcement of charges came just hours after a fourth student, Justin Shilling, 17, died at about 10 a.m. at McLaren Oakland Hospital in Pontiac, Mich., the authorities said.

The other students killed in the shooting had been previously identified as Hana St. Juliana, 14; Madisyn Baldwin, 17; and Tate Myre, 16, who died in a sheriff’s squad car while on the way to a hospital. Seven other people were injured.

The suspect emerged from a bathroom on Tuesday and started firing at students in the school’s hallway, the authorities said on Wednesday after reviewing video footage of the attack. Sheriff Bouchard said investigators were poring through many hours of video from security cameras to track the suspect’s actions, but his targets “appeared random.”

Sheriff Bouchard also said investigators had determined no possible motive for the shooting, which he described as “absolutely brutally cold hearted.” The suspect was being held at a juvenile jail early Wednesday.

The authorities served a search warrant on Tuesday night at the house of the suspect’s family in the village of Oxford, Mich. The sheriff said investigators were examining the contents of his computer and phone, including social media posts.

The gunman fired about 30 shots with a semiautomatic handgun before being apprehended with 18 live rounds still in his possession, the authorities said. Michael McCabe, the Oakland County undersheriff, said the suspect, who had been in class earlier Tuesday, “gave up without any problems.”

When the boy’s parents went to a sheriff’s substation after the shooting, they declined to let investigators question their child, Undersheriff McCabe said.

The sheriff told reporters on Tuesday that a 9-millimeter Sig Sauer handgun used in the shooting had been bought four days earlier by the suspect’s father. Sheriff Bouchard said the gunman was still armed when he was arrested by deputies in a school hallway.

“He is not talking and neither are the parents,” the sheriff said.

Sheriff Bouchard said investigators had been told that the gunman pretended to be an officer in order to access barricaded classrooms, but later said that reviewing video evidence confirmed that he had not knocked on doors. “We know from physical evidence he shot through doors up and down more than one hallway,” the sheriff said on Wednesday.

The injured students ranged in age from 14 to 17, officials said, including at least two who remained in critical condition. The only adult who was shot, a 47-year-old female teacher, was discharged from a hospital on Tuesday.
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Link
 
man, those parents seem like real pieces of shit.
 
scooter84 said:
I am a conservative republican but agree that gun laws need to change. I have difficulty deciding what laws should change and how to have the most impact on gun deaths. Where do you focus your efforts?

Suicide deaths?
- Increase wait times for hand guns
- Require background checks and classes like for concealed carry permits for all handgun purchases
- Improve mental health services
- Create and encourage the use of improved physical security devices for handguns

Crime and gang-related shootings?
- Many of the same changes re: handguns
- Implement identification serial numbers on handguns that are impossible to remove (internal? electronic?)
- Enforce registration requirements that tie a person to the serial number - and add liability for crimes committed with a gun registered to you (Maybe this exists? I have never heard of it?)

Removing handguns from circulation would help both of the above
- Create meaningful funds for buy-back programs - significant enough to motivate turn-ins - would have to be $Bs...

Mass shootings?
- Require enhanced background checks and/or concealed carry-like classes to purchase large-capacity magazines
- Though assault-type weapons are not inherently more dangerous than other semi-automatic rifles, they are disproportionately represented in mass shootings - I guess it is a psychological thing. So, we should discourage their circulation. Again, perhaps enhanced background checks, waiting periods, serial number registrations requirements, liability for crimes later committed, etc. would help - maybe an assault-weapon tax to increase cost?
- Improved mental-health screenings and treatment
- Suppressors are already extremely difficult to get so I don't think they are an issue - some with fully automatic weapons.

Kids shooting other kids - at schools and otherwise
- Anti-bullying campaigns
- Better trained counselors at schools
- Liability for parents when their kids take their guns and shoot someone - something to encourage parents to secure their weapons
This one really bothers me because I wonder what it would take for a young teenager to get to the point where they pick up a weapon and kill other kids. Access to the weapon is obviously a problem but the question of how they get to that point is vital. Assuming this doesn't happen in other countries because there aren't so many guns around, then do those kids have similar break-downs or issues? If not - what is different here?

Anyway - these are just a few off-the-cuff thoughts. Take them for what they are worth...
Click to expand...

This is a good post. Common sense gun laws have widespread support and are the place to start. Universal background checks, mandatory training, magazine capacity limits, red flag laws, and elimination of ghost guns. Unfortunately, most states are going the opposite direction with gun laws, and removing background checks, mandatory training, etc. If you think gun violence is a major issue in this country, you can't vote for Republicans.

Every country has teenagers that are anxious, depressed, immature. Every country has violent video games. But only the US has a massive number of guns and school shootings. It is clearly the guns.
 
[h=1]Alleged Michigan School Shooter Made Gun Video, Had Parents Called Into School[/h]


The 15-year-old charged with killing four of his classmates met with the school earlier that day with his parents to discuss his concerning behavior.


https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7n...ooter-ethan-crumbley-charged-murder-terrorism

Also on Wednesday, Oakland County prosecutor Karen McDonald said her office was confident that the shooting at Oxford high School was “absolutely premeditated,” citing a “mountain of digital evidence,” including from social media.

Several accounts linked to the alleged shooter, that were reviewed by VICE News before their removal, contained multiple references to firearms. One video posted to one of those accounts on Monday evening showed him pointing a gun at the camera and laughing.

The teen used a gun that his father had purchased on Black Friday (Nov. 26) in the attack, and 15-20 shots in total, police said. McDonald said Wednesday that his parents could potentially also face charges in the shooting.
Click to expand...

Conservatives like to say "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." But they'd feel oppressed if the authorities actually acted on violent threats from these punks.
 
kinda hard to imagine this kid being a mass murderer in 3 years


ethan-crumbley-dads-facebook.jpeg
 
Rafi said:
This is a good post. Common sense gun laws have widespread support and are the place to start. Universal background checks, mandatory training, magazine capacity limits, red flag laws, and elimination of ghost guns. Unfortunately, most states are going the opposite direction with gun laws, and removing background checks, mandatory training, etc. If you think gun violence is a major issue in this country, you can't vote for Republicans.

Every country has teenagers that are anxious, depressed, immature. Every country has violent video games. But only the US has a massive number of guns and school shootings. It is clearly the guns.
Click to expand...


Yep…typically any move towards implementing these gets mischaracterized by dishonest Republicans grubbing for power.
 
I'm sorry, but when you vote for Republican Senators and Congressmen, you're voting to keep the status quo, which is where these massacres occur.
 
scooter84 said:
Bullshit.
Click to expand...

You can post all you want on the internet about all these great gun control measures you think we need, but until you start voting against Republicans and any politician that is not for gun control, you are complicit.
 
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