OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP PPPPPSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[ImTheCaptain]

 

[Wakeforest22890]

I don’t care if they post about it or troll. It’s just obvious they’re wrong. It’s also insight into how Donald successfully pulled the wool over so many peoples eyes.

 

[PhDeac]

Sailor and Moonz's shticks are beyond tiring at this point.

If there is anyone out there who can intelligently defend Trump's actions without resorting to whataboutism or other inane conspiracy theories (i.e. must be willing to acknowledge facts)...please stand up.

It's telling that conservative posters have generally abandoned this topic, if not the Tunnels all together.

 

[wakephan09]

It's telling that conservative posters have generally abandoned this topic, if not the Tunnels all together.

I think a number of our conservative posters (like NED) have just come to seem like liberal posters because they're not crazies.

 

[birdman]

the FISA court was set up to fight terrorism, not as a devious way to legalize spying on domestic political opponents

in your rush to get Trump, you want to sacrifice civil liberties, maybe you should reconsider

The FISA court was established in the 70's to fight the cold war, it's powers were greatly expanded under the patriot act (an act greatly championed by the GOP) to allow for secret surveillance on US citizens in the fight against terrorism. There are no checks and balances on the FISA court, by design, because intelligence agencies don't want their information gathering methods and sources open for public review. I think FISA is absolutely a problem, I've posted about it at least twice before, and the ACLU has been fighting the FISA expansion since the Patriot act was passed. But what you are suggesting would be an uncontrolled revealing of our espionage monitoring methods and maybe sources for all the world to see. Let's have a serious discussion about FISA that is independent of this specific case, or let's have Carter Page sue the government and take FISA to the supreme court, don't just open up the FISA willy nilly for political gain, putting the country at risk.

 

[sailordeac]

The FISA court was established in the 70's to fight the cold war, it's powers were greatly expanded under the patriot act (an act greatly championed by the GOP) to allow for secret surveillance on US citizens in the fight against terrorism. There are no checks and balances on the FISA court, by design, because intelligence agencies don't want their information gathering methods and sources open for public review. I think FISA is absolutely a problem, I've posted about it at least twice before, and the ACLU has been fighting the FISA expansion since the Patriot act was passed. But what you are suggesting would be an uncontrolled revealing of our espionage monitoring methods and maybe sources for all the world to see. Let's have a serious discussion about FISA that is independent of this specific case, or let's have Carter Page sue the government and take FISA to the supreme court, don't just open up the FISA willy nilly for political gain, putting the country at risk.

couldn't agree more about the need to take a close look at how FISA has been operating

maybe Dershowitz's idea about an independent commission to look into it is a good one

 

[WakeandBake]

the FISA court was set up to fight terrorism, not as a devious way to legalize spying on domestic political opponents

in your rush to get Trump, you want to sacrifice civil liberties, maybe you should reconsider

Why not just have all the principals, including Trump, sit down with Mueller and the FBI and make sure we have all we need to reach a conclusion and move on, then we don't have to release anything. Very simple leadership here. Where is it?

Right now we have a leader who is actively and energetically being uncooperative with a national security matter.

 

[Newenglanddeac]

You put information in an explanatory footnote that is not central to the argument, not particularly relevant or important. They hid the information under some general innocuous terminology in the footnote, when they had exact accurate knowledge of who ordered and paid for the Steele dossier. They were "not volunteering information" - to put it in Watergate terms - for the judge. The whole footnote business was to cover their asses, which is what they continue to do to this day. They were being deliberately unforthcoming and ultimately dishonest with the judge in order to get the warrant. The political bias of Steele is one thing, the political biases of the agents and the DoJ - or perhaps the judge - is another matter to consider.

This whole matter is difficult to evaluate without a lot more detail about the FISA court, its role in this matter, and the whole surveillance of Carter Page.

Wrong once again.

Based on this back and forth between the HPSCI partisans, I wrote on Lawfare at the time that the FBI’s disclosures on Steele “amply satisfie[d] the requirements” for FISA applications, and that the central irony of the Nunes memo was that it “tried to deceive the American people in precisely the same way that it falsely accused the FBI of deceiving the FISA Court.” The Nunes memo accused the FBI of dishonesty in failing to disclose information about Steele, but in fact the Nunes memo itself was dishonest in failing to disclose what the FBI disclosed. I said then, and I still believe, that the “Nunes memo was dishonest. And if it is allowed to stand, we risk significant collateral damage to essential elements of our democracy.”

Now we have some additional information in the form of the redacted FISA applications themselves, and the Nunes memo looks even worse. In my earlier post, I observed that the FBI’s disclosures about Steele were contained in a footnote, but argued that this did not detract from their sufficiency: “As someone who has read and approved many FISA applications and dealt extensively with the FISA Court, I will anticipate and reject a claim that the disclosure was somehow insufficient because it appeared in a footnote; in my experience, the court reads the footnotes.” Now we can see that the footnote disclosing Steele’s possible bias takes up more than a full page in the applications, so there is literally no way the FISA Court could have missed it. The FBI gave the court enough information to evaluate Steele’s credibility.

 

[Newenglanddeac]

 

[Newenglanddeac]

 

[Newenglanddeac]

 

[birdman]

Peter Strzok lied to his wife about having an affair. Obviously the FBI is corrupt and the whole organization should be put on trial.

 

[Newenglanddeac]

 

[ConnorEl]

Peter Strzok lied to his wife about having an affair. Obviously the FBI is corrupt and the whole organization should be put on trial.

Nay, no trial...just assumedly guilty of whatever we want.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

moonz scratches head

 

[Newenglanddeac]

 

[Newenglanddeac]

Lol.

 

[avalon]

I just donated to the opponents of each of the Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee that voted to release Nunes' memo and to withhold the Dems' memo. (Though I gotta say, there are some safe seats on this committee. And, with the exception of Will Hurd, the Republicans in the less safe seats are fleeing.)

Devin Nunes, Chairman
22nd District of California
https://www.andrewjanzforcongress.com/

Mike Conaway
11th District of Texas
http://jennielouleeder.com/

Peter King
2nd District of New York
https://www.liubaforcongress.com/

Frank LoBiondo
2nd District of New Jersey
(not running for reelection, afraid to lose)

Tom Rooney
17th District of Florida
(pre-primary)

Ileana Ros-Lehtinen
27th District of Florida
(not running for reelection, afraid to lose)

Michael Turner
10th District of Ohio
https://www.gasperforcongress.com/

Brad Wenstrup
2nd District of Ohio
http://voteschiller.com/

Chris Stewart
2nd District of Utah
https://www.shireenforcongress.com/

Rick Crawford
1st District of Arkansas
https://www.desaiforcongress.com/

Trey Gowdy
4th District of South Carolina
(not running for reelection, just a terrible, terrible person)

Elise Stefanik
21st District of New York
https://www.tedracobb.com/

Will Hurd
23rd District of Texas
https://ginaortizjones.com/

 

[Newenglanddeac]