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Parody Joe Biden site getting more traffic than official campaign site

Highland Deac said:
I would argue with you that unregulated, laissez-faire capitalism has done at least as much damage to the US since the Gilded Age as "socialism", which is why we have had reform periods in American history where socialist-type reforms were implemented that have vastly benefited large numbers of people, including, ironically, most Trump supporters. Social Security is one, so is the FDA, so is Medicare and Medicaid, so are public schools (free for everyone), so is unemployment insurance, graduated income taxes, and so on. Regulated capitalism works fine, the problem with the GOP is that they don't want regulated capitalism, they are hell-bent on dragging us backward to the laissez-faire capitalism of the Gilded Age, which did not benefit most Americans, and will cause great harm to most Americans now. And I find it hard to believe that any Democrat now running is a greater threat to democracy than Donald Trump. Trump is the antithesis of what a POTUS should be, and he most certainly does not represent large numbers of Americans, nor does he have their best interests in mind. His administration is a cesspool of corruption and incompetence, and he has definite authoritarian tendencies, among other massive faults.
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This. It’s amazing how poorly modern conservatives grasp history and the capital/labor dynamic.
 
So what is your solution to the healthcare issue Wrangor? Just more of the same and hope you don't get a serious illness?
 
Highland Deac said:
I would argue with you that unregulated, laissez-faire capitalism has done at least as much damage to the US since the Gilded Age as "socialism", which is why we have had reform periods in American history where socialist-type reforms were implemented that have vastly benefited large numbers of people, including, ironically, most Trump supporters. Social Security is one, so is the FDA, so is Medicare and Medicaid, so are public schools (free for everyone), so is unemployment insurance, graduated income taxes, and so on. Regulated capitalism works fine, the problem with the GOP is that they don't want regulated capitalism, they are hell-bent on dragging us backward to the laissez-faire capitalism of the Gilded Age, which did not benefit most Americans, and will cause great harm to most Americans now. And I find it hard to believe that any Democrat now running is a greater threat to democracy than Donald Trump. Trump is the antithesis of what a POTUS should be, and he most certainly does not represent large numbers of Americans, nor does he have their best interests in mind. His administration is a cesspool of corruption and incompetence, and he has definite authoritarian tendencies, among other massive faults.
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Good post.
 
DDA said:
Wrangor, as a Christian, how would you justify a vote for trump over sanders? Are you strictly policy over person at this point?

And, how are warren or Harris more dangerous than trump to you personally? Shed some light on that one for me.

Have you personally benefitted from a trump presidency, as a farm owner? Curious to your thoughts on this, and how you’d justify a vote for him over Bernie or warren or Harris.

I appreciate your point of view on this thread. Seriously. You’re a smart guy and a Deac.
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As a Christian? Why would Bernie be a better choice for Christians? Because he wants to use government to redistribute wealth? That is a strange question.

Trumps tariff war is actually killing agriculture right now. There isn’t a crop that makes money in this climate. You are basically just trying to get back to even until pricing turns around and that won’t happen until China and the USA come to some sort of agreement and the markets stabilize.

Sonny Perdue said it best in a letter to producers to try to bolster spirits. He quoted a conversation he has had with the president.

[paraphrased] Farmers are people who play the long game, and they understand what you (Trump) are doing. But patriotism doesn’t pay the light bill.”

Back to your original question. I am not under the misconception that any of the people running for president align with my morality. For starters every democrat on the ticket has the exact opposite stance of mine on abortion. Secondly I am fairly libertarian on gender and sexual orientation but I don’t equate it to the civil rights movement so that also puts me in the cross hairs of the intersectional movement.

So I have no moral safe harbor. I do my best to pick the candidate that best represents my views and morality. Unfortunately I am kind of a man without a party. But I am conservative and do in the absence of a transcendent figure on the left that is fairly moderate (or at least campaigns that way) I am almost always going to vote conservative in national elections.

In local elections I don’t think the party really matters and I will vote for whoever I feel will represent me/my community the best in the role for which they are running.
 
Wouldn't being libertarian on gender and sexual orientation mean that you support one's right to identify however they want without it encroaching upon their liberty/happiness, etc.?
 
Good grief...with those talking points conservatives will want to vote for him!
 
Strickland33 said:
Wouldn't being libertarian on gender and sexual orientation mean that you support one's right to identify however they want without it encroaching upon their liberty/happiness, etc.?
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It is not a government job to delve into personal ideology. Gay rights, abortion, religion is not a government right to regulate...as founding fathers wanted.
 
warak said:
It is not a government job to delve into personal ideology. Gay rights, abortion, religion is not a government right to regulate...as founding fathers wanted.
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Personal ideology? What does this mean? There is a difference between social identity and personal ideology. One, the latter, is the domain of the person. The former, however, is the spectrum through which American citizenship and its tights refract.
 
Wrangor said:
I am fairly libertarian on gender and sexual orientation but I don’t equate it to the civil rights movement so that also puts me in the cross hairs of the intersectional movement.
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You can be fired in 27 states for being gay
You can be evicted in 31 states for being gay

How is this not about civil rights?
 
ChrisL68 said:
So what is your solution to the healthcare issue Wrangor? Just more of the same and hope you don't get a serious illness?
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Minimal universal coverage with private healthcare in which you pay for what you get. Essentially, standardize what we already have in place with a financially projectable solution. Quantify what we currently have, offer more prevantative visits/care but also require that people actually take care of their bodies. If you are smoking, eating poorly, not exercising then it shouldn't be a surprise when you have a heart attack. I don't think the American public should be on the hook for someone making bad life choices. Obviously there are massive genetic components to health, but there are also lifestyle components, and if we are going to pay for even a base level of coverage there must be accountability to the system.

Not missing your preventative checkups would be a start. Establishing baseline life/health standards would be another.

But the key would be not overextending the coverage to a point where it becomes unaffordable. I don't believe healthcare is a right, I believe it is a privilege, a privilege we should work hard to extend as far as possible in society without bankrupting it. Whatever isn't a financially reasonable solution for the country should be covered by private healthcare for those who can afford it. By doing so we don't create an unsustainable society that eventually will lose everything to bankruptcy. The United States of America is the greatest nation to have ever existed with regards to care for its citizens, freedom, and quality of life. If we want to offer those benefits for the future we need to be smart about how we do it.

Having a robust economy solves much more of these problems than spending trillions on healthcare. If people have a job, they can afford a lot more healthcare than our government could inefficiently provide to them.
 
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How come every other industrialized country in the world considers healthcare a human right?

Wrangor won't answer why it's OK for dozens of states to pass laws to make discrimination against LGBTQ citizens legal.
 
The “Christian” that every praises for being a moderate conservative voice thinks poor people should die if they can’t afford insulin.
 
RJKarl said:
How come every other industrialized country in the world considers healthcare a human right?

Wrangor won't answer why it's OK for dozens of states to pass laws to make discrimination against LGBTQ citizens legal.
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Be more specific .... hard to respond to broad statements. I may not think it is ok, but I am not sure what you are talking about.

With regards to your first question...why would I care what Belgium thinks about healthcare? They are free to think what they want. Entitlement ruins individuals, families, corporations, and societies. The less we consider a 'right' the better in my opinion. Getting beyond the actual Bill of Rights/Amendments usually (not always) leads to problems.
 
MHBDemon said:
The “Christian” that every praises for being a moderate conservative voice thinks poor people should die if they can’t afford insulin.
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Ding ding - we have another religious condescension. You are today's winner.
 
Wrangor said:
Be more specific .... hard to respond to broad statements. I may not think it is ok, but I am not sure what you are talking about.

Iamthunderbolt posted this:

Originally Posted by Wrangor View Post
I am fairly libertarian on gender and sexual orientation but I don’t equate it to the civil rights movement so that also puts me in the cross hairs of the intersectional movement.
You can be fired in 27 states for being gay
You can be evicted in 31 states for being gay

How is this not about civil rights?

Remember Wrangor Thunderbolt is a minister not some crazed liberal

With regards to your first question...why would I care what Belgium thinks about healthcare? They are free to think what they want. Entitlement ruins individuals, families, corporations, and societies. The less we consider a 'right' the better in my opinion. Getting beyond the actual Bill of Rights/Amendments usually (not always) leads to problems.
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Your post shows a few things. First, it shows that you don't think America is smart enough to run business and healthcare as well as other countries do. You show that you don't understand how other countries' healthcare systems work. In the other nations, employers and employees share the costs. This is one of the main reasons costs in those countries are so dramatically lower than ours. People pay for their care. Further, American has shown our system is callous, about the rich and driven to harm innocents.
 
Wrangor said:
Be more specific .... hard to respond to broad statements. I may not think it is ok, but I am not sure what you are talking about.

With regards to your first question...why would I care what Belgium thinks about healthcare? They are free to think what they want. Entitlement ruins individuals, families, corporations, and societies. The less we consider a 'right' the better in my opinion. Getting beyond the actual Bill of Rights/Amendments usually (not always) leads to problems.
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Given that I know two Trump-supporting folks (one currently unemployed, one working-class mechanic) who would almost certainly be dead without Medicaid - they both had extremely expensive surgeries and extended hospital stays that they couldn't possibly afford - I'll have to dispute your notion that healthcare is not a right, but a privilege. No matter how you slice it, having that attitude towards healthcare is going to invariably affect the poor and middle-class far more than wealthier people. And, yes, I do think it's very much a moral issue that everyone is entitled to decent healthcare, and it's every bit as much a moral issue as abortion. It's a little hard, in my opinion, to call abortion immoral while saying that people out of the womb are just screwed if they happen to have a health crisis and can't afford adequate care. As you mentioned, genetics plays a major role in a person's health, as does income and education. In the case of healthcare, "entitlement" doesn't ruin people or families, but denying it will sure as hell kill them, or lead to needless suffering.
 
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Decent modern health care is not and never will be affordable apart from an insurance mechanism.

It’s not a damn government give away to have everyone to participate in an insurance system that actually meets the needs of everyone.

Anyone imagining this will ever happen apart from it being required is just ignorant.
 
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