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Parody Joe Biden site getting more traffic than official campaign site

birdman said:
There is little to no hope of winning over “moderate” pubs.
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I think the phenomenon of Biden winning the head-to-head poll matchups with Trump are mostly conservatives trying to make a point about the democratic field. The instant that they are actually forced to consider Biden, or he echos anything remotely progressive, they'll turn on him, and even if he doesn't, they'll let foxnews make something up for them. A few people are already turning on him for apologizing to Anita Hill.
 
Wrangor tripping all over his conservative bona fides to try and appear to have some kind of compassionate and reasonable healthcare solution. Just own it, bro - you believe that its people's fault that they are sick and/or poor. That's it, that's the conservative line. It's what makes you conservatives, and you should stop trying to polish that turd. If you are born poor or born unhealthy, well, those are the cards you are dealt and it is immoral and wrong to expect healthy non-poor Americans to help you. Work/pray harder, be better, and it will work out.

Meanwhile, over in the real world, the empirical evidence is overwhelming that a society/economy can offer universal healthcare and simultaneously be prosperous and productive. Hard-workers and risk-takers can and are rewarded financially. A healthier work-force is a good investment for everyone. The feigned anxiety over UHC crushing the economy is good fear-mongering but it doesn't hold up under scrutiny, it never has.

Meanwhile, over in the world of morality, Jesus Christ did not judge the lifestyles of the sick he was touching and was not bullshitting when he told his followers to do as he had done. He would undoubtedly shed a tear or two reading Wrangor's disappointing post calling for people to suffer physically and financially while the means to take care of them exists 10 fold. Cringeworthy, that post.

And in that list of unhealthy lifestyles, Wrangor forgot:

Sugar
salt
wheat/gluten
corn syrup
breathing in polluted air (that his party continues to deregulate)
lead-contaminated water (that his party turns a blind eye to)
 
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Wrangor said:
Having a robust economy solves much more of these problems than spending trillions on healthcare. If people have a job, they can afford a lot more healthcare than our government could inefficiently provide to them.
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I have a job with good high deductible healthcare, yet a ton of money comes out of each paycheck for premiums. If you convert that premium in my paycheck to a tax for some sort of universal coverage it won’t matter to me as I’ll still be OOP same amount.

By the way every year my premium goes up and my deductible goes up too. Guess I’ll just have to “afford a lot more”
 
Seems to me the private healthcare model has done nothing to discourage Americans from becoming fat fucks who eat horrible food and act like a bunch of entitled assholes, counter to the argument Wrangor is making against "giveaways."

How do we stack up health-wise against those countries with UHC? We don't, we don't even make the top 25 which is filled with countries with UHC. http://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/healthiest-countries/

Maybe if it was a tax-based system there would be some peer pressure to not act like an asshole and treat yourself like a garbage dump, especially Mississippi and the rest of the deep south red states where obesity is an epidemic.

It's as if there is a willful ignorance of the data.
 
"socialism" bad

they're like a bunch of fucking cavemen
 
"Meanwhile, over in the world of morality, Jesus Christ did not judge the lifestyles of the sick he was touching and was not bullshitting when he told his followers to do as he had done. He would undoubtedly shed a tear or two reading Wrangor's disappointing post calling for people to suffer physically and financially while the means to take care of them exists 10 fold."

Anybody have odds on WakeandBake for the most Christian post on this thread?

Somehow we have to get away from this idea of their being healthy people and sick people. Sickness and health are stages we all go through in life. Some days we are healthy. Some days we are sick. When we are healthy, we contribute and we can draw from it someday when we are sick.
 
 
But...but...he cut taxes for corporations. And appointed “conservative” judges!
 
Look, if you want to vote for Trump, vote for Trump. If you like what he is doing, or who he is, and think it's the right way to go -- fine (you're a moron and probably a white supremacist, but fine). But you don't get to call yourself Christian. That train has sailed.
 
RJKarl said:
Your post shows a few things. First, it shows that you don't think America is smart enough to run business and healthcare as well as other countries do. You show that you don't understand how other countries' healthcare systems work. In the other nations, employers and employees share the costs. This is one of the main reasons costs in those countries are so dramatically lower than ours. People pay for their care. Further, American has shown our system is callous, about the rich and driven to harm innocents.
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Thunderbolt wasn't specific. I am not sure how to respond to a statement like that. Give me a specific example and I can comment on it. I am not avoiding it, but I am not about to try and look up 58 different statutes/laws to attempt to respond. You said I was avoiding...give me a targeted question. I'll answer it.

Re: healthcare. You are right. I don't think the government as a collective is very smart when it comes to the value of a service and the money that it costs to perform that service. There are few things that the government does particularly well, so that conservative take is that we need to allow government to do the things it has to do (infrastructure, military, etc...) and keep it out of almost everything else. We already have universal healthcare in this country. If you are sick you will always be treated. Right now we just don't have a plan to pay for it. The private sector outperforms the public sector as a general rule. We have already established that we will not allow someone to die in the emergency room (the correct decision), so lets pay for it. But I don't feel the public needs to provide healthcare equally to all citizens because I don't believe that all citizens value healthcare equally. Additionally it will be a less effective, worse care, and higher spending model than what we have now (and I know now is when people like to cite all sorts of their itemized articles stating how much better their opinion is...I get it.).

The response to this is going to continue to be a morality play against me, I get that as well, but that is an insufficient argument and will never convince me nor anyone, because I have a pretty good hunch that my dedication to my community, to humanity, to the wellbeing of others stacks up pretty well. So you telling me I am a terrible example of a human doesn't really resonate. I know I am a sinner saved by the grace of God. I also know that I have a heart of service and a heart to see people renewed physically, socially, financially and spiritually. What I don't think is that the government is always the best way to do that.
 
I don't remember Wrangor talking about his views in terms of "I am a conservative, therefore I believe" before.
 
PhDeac said:
"Meanwhile, over in the world of morality, Jesus Christ did not judge the lifestyles of the sick he was touching and was not bullshitting when he told his followers to do as he had done. He would undoubtedly shed a tear or two reading Wrangor's disappointing post calling for people to suffer physically and financially while the means to take care of them exists 10 fold."

Anybody have odds on WakeandBake for the most Christian post on this thread?

Somehow we have to get away from this idea of their being healthy people and sick people. Sickness and health are stages we all go through in life. Some days we are healthy. Some days we are sick. When we are healthy, we contribute and we can draw from it someday when we are sick.
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This is the stupid tripe that gets old. 'you aren't a christian because you don't agree with my politically'. The irony of this is that this is the exact argument my redneck conservative friends make when discussing democrats... Two sides of the same coin I guess. The inability to see outside one's own personal worldview is a strikingly dangerous intellectual position, particularly for a professor.
 
PhDeac said:
I don't remember Wrangor talking about his views in terms of "I am a conservative, therefore I believe" before.
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Memory is poor then. Have always held conservative views.
 
Shooshmoo said:
Look, if you want to vote for Trump, vote for Trump. If you like what he is doing, or who he is, and think it's the right way to go -- fine (you're a moron and probably a white supremacist, but fine). But you don't get to call yourself Christian. That train has sailed.
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LOL... I'm sure all of the Christians who voted for Trump (or plan to vote for Trump) will not sleep a wink tonight knowing Shooshmoo has decreed they can no longer practice Christianity and are white supremacists.
 
Colonel Angus said:
LOL... I'm sure all of the Christians who voted for Trump (or plan to vote for Trump) will not sleep a wink tonight knowing Shooshmoo has decreed they can no longer practice Christianity and are white supremacists.
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Oh, I'm sure they sleep very well. They have a scapegoat and a President who hates brown people like they do. They are more than welcome to keep "practicing" their "Christianity".The rest of us know who they are.
 
Wrangor said:
This is the stupid tripe that gets old. 'you aren't a christian because you don't agree with my politically'. The irony of this is that this is the exact argument my redneck conservative friends make when discussing democrats... Two sides of the same coin I guess. The inability to see outside one's own personal worldview is a strikingly dangerous intellectual position, particularly for a professor.
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I didn’t say that. I said Bake’s post was more informed by Christ than other posts on this thread.

Wrangor said:
Memory is poor then. Have always held conservative views.
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Didn’t say you hadn’t always been conservative. What I said was in the past your views were your views. Most of the time they lined up with what’s considered conservative. Now it seems like you are parroting conservative views.

Another way to look at it is that your views are based on politics instead of your faith, your life experiences, or thoughtfully considering the issues.
 
Wrangor said:
Thunderbolt wasn't specific. I am not sure how to respond to a statement like that. Give me a specific example and I can comment on it. I am not avoiding it, but I am not about to try and look up 58 different statutes/laws to attempt to respond. You said I was avoiding...give me a targeted question. I'll answer it.

Re: healthcare. You are right. I don't think the government as a collective is very smart when it comes to the value of a service and the money that it costs to perform that service. There are few things that the government does particularly well, so that conservative take is that we need to allow government to do the things it has to do (infrastructure, military, etc...) and keep it out of almost everything else. We already have universal healthcare in this country. If you are sick you will always be treated. Right now we just don't have a plan to pay for it. The private sector outperforms the public sector as a general rule. We have already established that we will not allow someone to die in the emergency room (the correct decision), so lets pay for it. But I don't feel the public needs to provide healthcare equally to all citizens because I don't believe that all citizens value healthcare equally. Additionally it will be a less effective, worse care, and higher spending model than what we have now (and I know now is when people like to cite all sorts of their itemized articles stating how much better their opinion is...I get it.).

The response to this is going to continue to be a morality play against me, I get that as well, but that is an insufficient argument and will never convince me nor anyone, because I have a pretty good hunch that my dedication to my community, to humanity, to the wellbeing of others stacks up pretty well. So you telling me I am a terrible example of a human doesn't really resonate. I know I am a sinner saved by the grace of God. I also know that I have a heart of service and a heart to see people renewed physically, socially, financially and spiritually. What I don't think is that the government is always the best way to do that.
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Thunderbolt and I have you TWO specific examples of how gay people are discriminated against BY LAW in over TWO DOZEN states.

Here's his post again:

You can be fired in 27 states for being gay
You can be evicted in 31 states for being gay

Even if you believe being gay is a choice, your religion or lack thereof, is also "lifestyle" choice. Why should your "choice" of religion be protected but not gay people's "choice" of being gay?

How can anyone justify allowing people to be fired or evicted just for being gay? This isn't rocket science. These are laws you are avoiding saying are immoral.

Why should any American be discriminated against like this?

Why can't you answer these simple questions?
 
Re: healthcare. You are right. I don't think the government as a collective is very smart when it comes to the value of a service and the money that it costs to perform that service. There are few things that the government does particularly well, so that conservative take is that we need to allow government to do the things it has to do (infrastructure, military, etc...) and keep it out of almost everything else. We already have universal healthcare in this country. If you are sick you will always be treated. Right now we just don't have a plan to pay for it. The private sector outperforms the public sector as a general rule. We have already established that we will not allow someone to die in the emergency room (the correct decision), so lets pay for it. But I don't feel the public needs to provide healthcare equally to all citizens because I don't believe that all citizens value healthcare equally. Additionally it will be a less effective, worse care, and higher spending model than what we have now (and I know now is when people like to cite all sorts of their itemized articles stating how much better their opinion is...I get it.).
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1) But we do have a plan to pay for it, you just don't like it.

2) The evidence from other equally developed nations disproves your points about quality of care, effectiveness, overall health, and cost. Hell, our medicare system works great.

literally nothing in your post is accurate, at all. You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not making sense man.
 
We have universal healthcare now?

What a crock of shit.

Laws that require that a person be treated/stabilized in an emergency room = universal healthcare?

Good grief, that’s a pitifully low bar.

W&B is right, we made a major, yet incomplete, move towards the provision and payment for something closer to universal healthcare with the ACA. All that’s needed is to build on that—the most Republican/conservative/free market way possible to move towards actual universal care and have it paid for.

Pub response? Demonize, mischaracterize, and tear it apart/down.
 
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