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Possible Wake Forest Coaching Candidates Analysis

I don’t see the evidence that he’s a great young coach.
 
DeacsATS said:
However, I could certainly see us hiring Miller or someone else cheap... A flyer on a younger head coach. If it doesn’t work out, it didn’t cost much and the new AD can clean up the mess.
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He may hire him cheap, but extend him with a big guarantee after minimal success. I don't think there's any guarantee that we get something that doesn't cost us.
 
PhDeac said:
People seem to assume coaches and ADs will retire by 65 even though there’s little evidence of this especially among those who are getting paid a shit ton of money, well above the market rate.
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FIFY.
 
Agreed. Of course, if Wes’ dad keeps giving big money to the program, it’s like he’s giving his son a big allowance and we are getting a coach for free.
 
IamThunderbolt said:
I think a lot of Drew's take on Wes is observing his work ethic (a lot of personal relationship as well - seeing the best in those we know (cr. Elrod)), and he's not wrong. I've been to a lot of their games and have a friend who is decently close to the program, and a lot of how they talk about Wes is similar to things I hear about Clawson in terms of drive/hunger/relentlessness.
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The difference is that Clawson has the right work ethic AND he proved himself at multiple rungs on the ladder. Miller is still on a step stool.
 
PhDeac said:
I don’t see the evidence that he’s a great young coach.
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In the three years before Miller took over (2009-2011), UNCG went 5-25 (4-16) #324, 8-23 (6-12) #253, 7-24 (6-12) #284.

In the first 5 years under Miller (2012-2016), UNCG went 13-19 (10-8) #280, 9-22 (6-12) #286, 14-18 (7-9) #315, 11-22 (6-12) #285, 15-19 (10-8) #220. (Bolded year is 2014 season; the season after which Manning was hired)

In his last three years (2017-2019), UNCG is 25-10 (14-4) #121, 27-8 (15-3 - NCAA Bid) #82, 22-3 (11-1) #82.

A few things: DR destroyed whatever credibility that he might have by claiming that WF should've hired Miller in 2014 when it hired Manning (the bolded year). Miller had literally accomplished nothing as a college coach at that point, other than keep a bad program at the same level of bad. Further the claim that WF should've hired Miller in 2011 before he had coached on any level (other than as an assistant at High Point) is so ridiculous that DR doesn't even believe that. Also, the claim that the door has closed on WF's interest Miller is a joke. Miller may get nibbles from C-USA or A-10 or even AAC programs, but it's not like Power 6 programs are going to be in a bidding war over Miller after this season. WF can hire Miller after this season, and can offer him almost any terms that it wants (low salary, short term, almost termination at-will), and Miller would dive on it.

It took him awhile, but Miller does deserve credit for building a low level program into a program that has cracked the top 100 two years in a row. That is not easy given the limited resources available as compared to the other D-1 basketball programs. The UNCG's program's growth is a sign that Miller knows what he is doing and has a system that works, at least on the SoCon level, which is the #10 conference this year.

I'm not all in on Miller, but if/when WF makes a coaching change, he deserves a look. He is from NC; he has recruiting connections all over the region; he understands the ACC; he is young, energetic and a hustler. Traits that could work at WF. Would rather hire Oats, and definitely would let the due diligence process distinguish between other candidates (Forbes, Casey Alexander, Craig Smith, Bob Richey) assuming that some of the long shots don't bite (Matta, Cronin, Prohm), but Miller should be considered for the job.

Just wonder if DR appreciates that, if anything, his campaign for Miller has hurt his standing among posters here more than it has helped him.
 
I'm still leaning toward the WVU being as, if not more, attractive to Oats. Huggins just dismissed two veterans from the team and, in the words of a huge WVU fan, "he just looks tired." A retirement would not be surprising. Oats could continue recruiting the same area and would be coming in at the same time as their new FB coach. Replacing a legend would be a drawback (certainly not the situation at Wake) but it's not like Huggs is going out on top. It's somewhat like Fuente replacing Beamer at VT.
 
See what I posted this weekend. UNCG doesn't stand out compared to other SoCon teams over his tenure.
 
PhDeac said:
See what I posted this weekend. UNCG doesn't stand out compared to other SoCon teams over his tenure.
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Depends on the emphasis placed on his initial years at UNCG. I am not holding Miller's first 4 seasons at UNCG against him. The program sucked and he was the youngest coach in the country when he was hired. Think the last three seasons are more relevant and reflective of his coaching ability. In the last three years, Miller is 40-8 in the SoCon. That stands out.
 
I'm sure it's already been discussed on this long-ass thread, but I am skeptical of Wake's willingness to hire the son of a major donor as the head basketball coach. Unless Miller is an absolute slam dunk hire, which I don't think he is, despite having some intriguing qualities, seems like too much downside risk and something Wellman, Hatch and our BOT would prefer to avoid.
 
BudatWake said:
I've heard one of two more wins is all Danny needs to get another year. Hope that is not true . Guy should be gone Now. I will not get too excited about any candidate until Danny is gone
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When Manning loses on Tuesday of the ACC tournament, he will be 1-5 in that tournament with his best (and only) win coming against a 15-seed Boston College. No sniff of Thursday on. He absolutely cannot be the coach next year. He should be out before the tournament ends.
 
Pilchard said:
In the three years before Miller took over (2009-2011), UNCG went 5-25 (4-16) #324, 8-23 (6-12) #253, 7-24 (6-12) #284.

In the first 5 years under Miller (2012-2016), UNCG went 13-19 (10-8) #280, 9-22 (6-12) #286, 14-18 (7-9) #315, 11-22 (6-12) #285, 15-19 (10-8) #220. (Bolded year is 2014 season; the season after which Manning was hired)

In his last three years (2017-2019), UNCG is 25-10 (14-4) #121, 27-8 (15-3 - NCAA Bid) #82, 22-3 (11-1) #82.

A few things: DR destroyed whatever credibility that he might have by claiming that WF should've hired Miller in 2014 when it hired Manning (the bolded year). Miller had literally accomplished nothing as a college coach at that point, other than keep a bad program at the same level of bad. Further the claim that WF should've hired Miller in 2011 before he had coached on any level (other than as an assistant at High Point) is so ridiculous that DR doesn't even believe that. Also, the claim that the door has closed on WF's interest Miller is a joke. Miller may get nibbles from C-USA or A-10 or even AAC programs, but it's not like Power 6 programs are going to be in a bidding war over Miller after this season. WF can hire Miller after this season, and can offer him almost any terms that it wants (low salary, short term, almost termination at-will), and Miller would dive on it.

It took him awhile, but Miller does deserve credit for building a low level program into a program that has cracked the top 100 two years in a row. That is not easy given the limited resources available as compared to the other D-1 basketball programs. The UNCG's program's growth is a sign that Miller knows what he is doing and has a system that works, at least on the SoCon level, which is the #10 conference this year.

I'm not all in on Miller, but if/when WF makes a coaching change, he deserves a look. He is from NC; he has recruiting connections all over the region; he understands the ACC; he is young, energetic and a hustler. Traits that could work at WF. Would rather hire Oats, and definitely would let the due diligence process distinguish between other candidates (Forbes, Casey Alexander, Craig Smith, Bob Richey) assuming that some of the long shots don't bite (Matta, Cronin, Prohm), but Miller should be considered for the job.

Just wonder if DR appreciates that, if anything, his campaign for Miller has hurt his standing among posters here more than it has helped him.
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These are my thoughts exactly
 
Are there any other confirmed examples of a basketball coach that had a ridiculous buyout like we think Manning has?
 
Pilchard said:
Depends on the emphasis placed on his initial years at UNCG. I am not holding Miller's first 4 seasons at UNCG against him. The program sucked and he was the youngest coach in the country when he was hired. Think the last three seasons are more relevant and reflective of his coaching ability. In the last three years, Miller is 40-8 in the SoCon. That stands out.
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I don't want to wait 5+ years for Wake to be good because the program sucks now and Miller would be the youngest coach in the conference.
 
buckets said:
Are there any other confirmed examples of a basketball coach that had a ridiculous buyout like we think Manning has?
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I read in an old ACC Handbook that Pete Gillen's contract at UVa apparently did not have a buyout, leaving the school on the hook for however many years were remaining on it.
 
bigboy8 said:
The decision is already made, 1or 2 wins wont matter.
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I've said it before, but I'm afraid of the Childress situation. Does Wellman punt for a year on Manning because he doesn't want to get rid of Randolph when Brandon is a senior. Also lessens the financial burden if his contract is guaranteed or a buyout is some kind of PV of those dollars. A really awful logic to use to retain a coach for a year, but that doesn't mean Wellman won't do it.
 
ManhassetDeac said:
I've said it before, but I'm afraid of the Childress situation. Does Wellman punt for a year on Manning because he doesn't want to get rid of Randolph when Brandon is a senior. Also lessens the financial burden if his contract is guaranteed or a buyout is some kind of PV of those dollars. A really awful logic to use to retain a coach for a year, but that doesn't mean Wellman won't do it.
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There is a non-zero probability of this scenario playing out. All Wellman has to do to make it happen is.....
.nothing!.
 
tagsfan said:
I read in an old ACC Handbook that Pete Gillen's contract at UVa apparently did not have a buyout, leaving the school on the hook for however many years were remaining on it.
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Let me clarify - I consider having to payout the full balance of a contract the same as a buyout (just a giant one)

It's just inconceivable to me that we'd sign a contract like that, especially given that I've never heard of a college basketball coach having any sort of $10mm+ buyout and especially not one with Danny Manning's profile
 
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