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Putin for the Nobel Peace Prize

Wrangor said:
So we are not allowed to comment on how we got here? And in your first comment you said that if Assad is out Obama and Putin deserve credit. What evidence do you have that Assad is on his way out? He is by no means out. In fact he is almost guaranteed victory at this point. Which is fine by me other than the fact that we will now have a leader in the region that can tell all the other crazies that they don't have to fear the US anymore (which is exactly what Assad is already doing). We legitimize Assad by agreeing to the handover. It was our only option at that point but Assad is happy to hand over the weapons and join the treaty. He trades some weapons for international legitimacy. Big win for him.

I am as glad as you are that we aren't getting involved but we still took a hit. Our resolve has been compromised because we resolved to do something stupid and were called out on it. Fortunately we backed off the ledge but that doesn't change that there are negative long term consequences to acting like we did.

We lost the moral right to war in Iraq and we just confirmed it in the worlds eyes by trying to take military action again without the worlds consent. If we are going to be one nation among many (which is Obamas philosophy) then we need to actually back up the words from the get go. Not merely give in to Putin after he has put us in the timeout chair.
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Over the past few years, you remind of an old buddy Stewey (not from Family Guy). Stewey used to go to the track with us. He was the worst handicapper I have ever seen. He was so bad and so often wrong that we used ask him whom he was betting so we could eliminate that horse from consideration.

Over the past few years, you have been the board's Stewey on everything Obama.
 
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RacerDeac said:
Sick burn RJ.
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Don't pile on Racer. I am already reeling. I think I am going to have to block RJ for a while so I don't continue to respond. That and he keeps hurting my feelings.
 
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RJKarl said:
Over the past few years, you remind of an old buddy Stewey (not from Family Guy). Stewey used to go to the track with us. He was the worst handicapper I have ever seen. He was so bad and so often wrong that we used ask him whom he was betting so we could eliminate that horse from consideration.

Over the past few years, you have been the board's Stewey on everything Obama.
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If you're going to make something up, at least include a smidgen of creativity. "Uh, we knew this guy who wasn't good at something, so uh, we didn't take his advice."
 
I made nothing up. Stewey was so bad and so unlucky at handicapping that he bet his last $40 on the legendary Albatross to show. It was the only race he didn't make the board.

Just because you've had a boring life doesn't mean others haven't had characters in theirs.
 
Wrangor said:
So we are not allowed to comment on how we got here? And in your first comment you said that if Assad is out Obama and Putin deserve credit. What evidence do you have that Assad is on his way out?...
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Well, since you asked, I think you are free to offer comment and speculation on whatever pleases yourself.

My two brief posts here are, I think, pretty consistent. I said "if in the end" and then suggested that before we draw sweeping conclusions about who gets credit for what wrt some components of a hoped-for resolution of this conflict we might wait to see how the events unfold. I don't think Assad will stay in power, but I'll just have to wait and see. Supposedly even the Russians are acknowledging this in private.

I read this piece (David Ignatius: The Syrian deus ex machina) a few days ago, and see similar sentiments expressed by others.

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● President Bashar al-Assad must go. The Russians know this; they’ve repeatedly said so privately to U.S. officials. Now they need to make it happen. U.N. inspectors have gathered evidence that Syrian civilians were killed by sarin nerve gas on Aug. 21; this action could have been done only by the regime. It would be politically dangerous, as well as immoral, to allow Assad to remain in power once these findings are disclosed.
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Jon Stewart just destroyed the Wrongor's of the world about the silliness of their position. He's making all of them look incredibly stupid.

"don't you dare not bomb Iran"

Diplomacy really sucks doesn't it?
 
ConnorEl said:
Well, since you asked, I think you are free to offer comment and speculation on whatever pleases yourself.

My two brief posts here are, I think, pretty consistent. I said "if in the end" and then suggested that before we draw sweeping conclusions about who gets credit for what wrt some components of a hoped-for resolution of this conflict we might wait to see how the events unfold. I don't think Assad will stay in power, but I'll just have to wait and see. Supposedly even the Russians are acknowledging this in private.

I read this piece (David Ignatius: The Syrian deus ex machina) a few days ago, and see similar sentiments expressed by others.

Quote:
----------
● President Bashar al-Assad must go. The Russians know this; they’ve repeatedly said so privately to U.S. officials. Now they need to make it happen. U.N. inspectors have gathered evidence that Syrian civilians were killed by sarin nerve gas on Aug. 21; this action could have been done only by the regime. It would be politically dangerous, as well as immoral, to allow Assad to remain in power once these findings are disclosed.
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All I am giving Putin credit for is that he prevented us from bombing Syria. I am not making final judgements. I think Assad will remain in power but as you said that is to be determined.

Putin deserves the credit for where we are now. How this turns out is anyone's guess although if we are isolating the civil war it would seem Assad has the upper hand at this point since any outside help to the rebels will be very limited.

I don't disagree with much of what you said.
 
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RJKarl said:
Jon Stewart just destroyed the Wrongor's of the world about the silliness of their position. He's making all of them look incredibly stupid.

"don't you dare not bomb Iran"

Diplomacy really sucks doesn't it?
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Drone strike Jon Stewart and all of the innocent people who just happened to be at his show!!!
 
I would kindly ask people to not quote RJ's idiotic rants that concern me. I am trying to quit cold turkey here. His idiocy is a special brand, it is a difficult habit to kick. Like a Dogfish 90 when I am giving up good beer. It almost isn't fair.
 
Wrangor said:
All I am giving Putin credit for is that he prevented us from bombing Syria. I am not making final judgements. I think Assad will remain in power but as you said that is to be determined.

Putin deserves the credit for where we are now. How this turns out is anyone's guess although if we are isolating the civil war it would seem Assad has the upper hand at this point since any outside help to the rebels will be very limited.

I don't disagree with mug is what you said.
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So Putin is doing this in a vacuum? The meetings that were initiated by Obama at the G20 had nothing to do with it?
 
Wrangor said:
I would kindly ask people to not quote RJ's idiotic rants that concern me. I am trying to quit cold turkey here. His idiocy is a special brand, it is a difficult habit to kick. Like a Dogfish 90 when I am giving up good beer. It almost isn't fair.
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Most likely, your problem is you are too boring.
 
A couple of pieces responding to Putin's letter to 'mericans.

Gene Robinson: Exceptional? You bet

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"America is not the world's policeman. Terrible things happen across the globe, and it is beyond our means to right every wrong. But when, with modest effort and risk, we can stop children from being gassed to death, and thereby make our own children safer over the long run, I believe we should act. That's what makes America different. That's what makes us exceptional. With humility, but with resolve, let us never lose sight of that essential truth."

If this sounds like a big change in Obama's worldview, you've been paying too much attention to the right-wing echo chamber -- and not enough to what Obama actually says and does.

It is an article of faith among Obama's critics that he believes the United States is just a regular country, no better or worse than others, and that, accordingly, he seeks to abdicate any leadership role in the world. Where do these critics get such an idea? From their own fevered imaginations, mostly.
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And a bit humorous: Dana Milbank on the American people's reply to Putin


Quote:
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Although some of us think it's a good idea to have the U.S. military strike Syria, most of the American people agree with you that it would be a bad one. (President Obama, you may have heard, is on both sides of the issue.) Your arguments against attack were creative, which is why it's such a shame that, at the very end, you kind of stepped in it. When you told us that Americans are not "exceptional" -- well, that hurts all of us American people.

I was surprised by this lapse because I think you really "get" Americans. When we saw photos of you shirtless in Siberia, you brought to mind one of our most celebrated American lawmakers, Anthony Weiner. When we watched you navigate around Russian laws to stay in power, you brought to mind another quintessentially American figure, Rod Blagojevich. The Harley-Davidson, the black clothing, the mistress half your age -- you are practically American yourself.
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