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Rebounding

Let's throw in Bz's two full seasons in the NBA too.

02-03 Nuggets: 3rd in OReb, 28 in Dreb, 14 overall
03-04 Nuggets: 7th in OReb, 24 in DReb, 15 overall
 
In [Redacted]'s 7 years as a head coach here are his ranks by OR% and DR% in the nation:

I'm not trying to start anything, but are we supposed to believe that [Redacted]'s teams over his seven years have had exactly one set of players on their roster (2007 at Air Force) where the team didn't have "skill" to rebound? I think that's a pretty good coincidence. On the other hand one common factor is [Redacted] being the coach.

I think you are trying to start something. That's why you are posting this.
His Air Force team wasn't particularly athletic. His Colorado team was pretty bad until his last year there and we know his Wake teams have had terrible big men so far. He clearly doesn't prioritize rebounding in his offensive set and maybe he values getting back on D.
If his teams win, I don't care where we rank.
After watching all our gamea there doesn't seem to be any logical reason to blame coach Bz for how horrible we are at rebounding this year.
 
Also, I think a lot of the DReb numbers are because Bz likes fronting the post. There is a trade-off there as it is harder to rebound out of fronting the post, but it is a higher pressure defense that causes more TOs when coupled with good perimeter defense. You need both hand in hand, and it allows transition play. His good Nuggets teams were 9th and 1st in pace respectively and 6th and 13th in Def Rating... though they both struggled on DRebounding.

Even this Wake team with a less than ideal lineup is 22nd in the nation in tempo so far.
 
There seems to be plenty of reason for concern both about our current rebounding difficulties as well as for future seasons.

Our current team sucks at rebounding. Fine. We can probably all agree that our rebounding woes in the present are largely--if not overwhelmingly--due to featuring a frontcourt rotation of Carson Desrosiers, Daniel Green, and Nikita M. Got it.

The question going forward is whether we'll ever be an above-average or even average rebounding team in the future. There is reason to be skeptical here.

First, as others have mentioned, none of [Redacted]'s teams spanning 3 different collegiate programs in 3 different conferences have ever been anything but woeful on the boards. The motion / modified Princeton halfcourt offense we run seems to result with our frontcourt players out on the perimeter much of the time, which would obviously hamper our ability to secure offensive rebounds. Moreover, there is reason to wonder whether [Redacted]'s recruiting might focus or favor more wing-type forwards with a diversity of skills rather than typical "bruisers"; indeed, we seem to be bringing in a lot of athletic, multiskilled, and high-upside forwards in the 6'7 to 6'8 range, but not a lot of traditional post players. This could be a matter of preference, coincidence, or just chance. Too soon to tell. Lastly, it's certainly possible that hey--maybe he just doesn't stress or coach it as intensely or effectively as others. Skip made rebounding a point of emphasis, and it showed statistically; maybe it's just the case that [Redacted] utilizes any remaining practice and instruction time for other things, like setting screens, etc.

Long story short, it's not controversial to acknowledge we suck at rebounding now. But it's not at all clear we'll be effective in the future, either. I don't particularly care as long as the overall product improves to a point where the program is where it should be. If being shitty on the boards doesn't matter to [Redacted], then it doesn't matter to me, either; whatever he thinks he needs to get it done here, fine--just do it.
 
I think you are trying to start something. That's why you are posting this.
His Air Force team wasn't particularly athletic. His Colorado team was pretty bad until his last year there and we know his Wake teams have had terrible big men so far. He clearly doesn't prioritize rebounding in his offensive set and maybe he values getting back on D.
If his teams win, I don't care where we rank.
After watching all our gamea there doesn't seem to be any logical reason to blame coach Bz for how horrible we are at rebounding this year.

For this year there's no reason to blame Bz I agree, but I think we can also all agree that [Redacted]'s teams of the past have not been good at rebounding and it's not that far-fetched to look at his past strategies and teams to say that perhaps Bz is part of it.
 
Why are [Redacted] teams across different programs consistently poor at rebounding? Even worse than the season before he arrived.

Very simply, the players that he recruits for his system of offense and defense aren't good rebounders. Granted this is also his fault, but to look at our current collection of players and expect significant upgrades in our rebounding during the season is as pointless as looking at Chenault and expecting him to become a a drastically improved three point shooter by the end of the year.

Bz obviously needs to tweak his recruiting formula to allow for more rebounders to make the cut. Next year we still don't have any significant rebounders coming in, some I expect this trend to continue.
 
Very simply, the players that he recruits for his system of offense and defense aren't good rebounders. Granted this is also his fault, but to look at our current collection of players and expect significant upgrades in our rebounding during the season is as pointless as looking at Chenault and expecting him to become a a drastically improved three point shooter by the end of the year.

Bz obviously needs to tweak his recruiting formula to allow for more rebounders to make the cut. Next year we still don't have any significant rebounders coming in, some I expect this trend to continue.

Great post
 
Bz' teams haven't been good at rebounding and they haven't been good overall. The question is are those two related and if that's going to be the case going forward at Wake.
 
We are going to have a hard time being a successful postseason team if we can't rebound.
 
I hate defending [Redacted] sometimes and there is simply no way it's all coincidence, but somehow, at every NCAA stop, he inherits a dearth of rebounders... At Air Force it makes sense since they have height limits upon enrollment (see this), but damn... those offensive rebounding numbers from the NBA are especially damning considering what he had and this season we've been killed on the O boards.

That being said, I am encouraged by the fact that his last recruiting class at Colorado included Andre Roberson, one of the toughest undersized rebounders in the NCAA... Makes me feel good about Devin and Tyler coming in, at least.
 
Roberson committed to Colorado on May 3, 2010. [Redacted] was hired by Wake on April 14, 2010. At that time, Colorado had 0 commitments in their 2010 recruiting class.
 
Bz' teams haven't been good at rebounding and they haven't been good overall. The question is are those two related and if that's going to be the case going forward at Wake.

I don't disagree with this post. You know that I am not BzOut or BzIn. Right now I am just wait, see, and cheer.
 
The offensive rebounding is clearly a product of running a motion style offense with the big guys out around the perimeter and I guess on defense it's scheme as well but its still extremely frustrating to watch. It continues to be an issue and maybe we could try to get better rebounders?
 
Some good info from StatSheet.

[Redacted]'s Year-by-Year College Head Coaching Record Season School W L Pct.
W L Pct. Conference Finish 1986-87 Maryland-Baltimore County 12 16 .429
-- -- -- -- 1987-88 Maryland-Baltimore County 13 15 .464
-- -- -- -- 2005-06 Air Force 24 7 .774
12 4 .750 2nd 2006-07 Air Force 26 9 .743
10 6 .625 3rd 2007-08 Colorado 12 20 .375
3 13 .188 12th 2008-09 Colorado 9 22 .290
1 15 .067 12th 2009-10 Colorado 15 16 .484
6 10 .375 8th 2010-11 Wake Forest 8 24 .250
1 15 .063 12th
UMBC Totals (2 seasons) 25 31 .446
-- -- --

Air Force Totals (2 seasons) 50 16 .758
22 10 .688

Colorado Totals (3 seasons) 36 58 .383
10 28 .263

Wake Forest Totals (1 season) 8 24 .250
1 15 .063

Overall (8 seasons) 119 129 .480
33 53 .384











































<!-- Start StatSheet.com Chartlet code --> <div style="margin:0px auto;text-align:center"> <a href="http://statsheet.com/" target="_blank" title="Home of College Basketball fanatics..." style="text-decoration:none;color:#666;font-family:sans-serif;font-size:11px"> College Basketball Stats by StatSheet.com</a> <br /> <script language="JavaScript1.2" type="text/javascript" src="http://statsheet.com/charts/teams/air-force/team-stats/historical/rebounds_off ensive_pct.js"> </script> </div> <!-- End StatSheet.com Chartlet code -->
 
Roberson committed to Colorado on May 3, 2010. [Redacted] was hired by Wake on April 14, 2010. At that time, Colorado had 0 commitments in their 2010 recruiting class.


Got to figure they were pretty far along in the process if he committed that quickly.
 
Some good info from StatSheet but I can't figure out how to embed the charts.

Go to the bottom to see charts that show offensive rebounding over time at Air Force and Colorado. The trend at Colorado is particularly striking. Defensive rebounding and other stats are in the links as well.

Offensive rebounding percentage rank at Colorado from 1999-2000 to present:

Before Bz
73
66
43
39
111
213
19
143

With Bz
322
343
341

After Bz
80

Hard to argue that it's talent.



[Redacted]'s Year-by-Year College Head Coaching Record Season School W L Pct.
W L Pct. Conference Finish 1986-87 Maryland-Baltimore County 12 16 .429
-- -- -- -- 1987-88 Maryland-Baltimore County 13 15 .464
-- -- -- -- 2005-06 Air Force 24 7 .774
12 4 .750 2nd 2006-07 Air Force 26 9 .743
10 6 .625 3rd 2007-08 Colorado 12 20 .375
3 13 .188 12th 2008-09 Colorado 9 22 .290
1 15 .067 12th 2009-10 Colorado 15 16 .484
6 10 .375 8th 2010-11 Wake Forest 8 24 .250
1 15 .063 12th
UMBC Totals (2 seasons) 25 31 .446
-- -- --

Air Force Totals (2 seasons) 50 16 .758
22 10 .688

Colorado Totals (3 seasons) 36 58 .383
10 28 .263

Wake Forest Totals (1 season) 8 24 .250
1 15 .063

Overall (8 seasons) 119 129 .480
33 53 .384
 
Offensive rebounding percentage rank at Colorado from 1999-2000 to present:

Before Bz
73
66
43
39
111
213
19
143

With Bz
322
343
341

After Bz
80

Hard to argue that it's talent.

Well that's pretty damning evidence. I think the question is can [Redacted] be successful with his system where rebounding isn't stressed and isn't very good, not really if we're going to be improving in rebounding in the near future.
 
Statsheet is such a bitch to embed...try to use stuff on BSD from there and it never works.
 
What I worry about is that we get pretty competitive in the ACC, but still flame out in the postseason because shooting percentages go down and rebounding and defense is more important.
 
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