Rebounding

[PhDeac]

But again, you have nothing to link [Redacted] to the recruit.

 

[Liquid Karma]

Was he actually offered while [Redacted] was head coach? If [Redacted] is supposed to get credit for recognizing this great rebounder, I assume he offered him a scholarship?

 

[Fuck Your Couch]

The offensive rebounding is clearly a product of running a motion style offense with the big guys out around the perimeter and I guess on defense it's scheme as well but its still extremely frustrating to watch. It continues to be an issue and maybe we could try to get better rebounders?

I know Bz hasn't had an even average offensive rebounding team in college and it is very disconcerting but you can offensively rebound out of the motion. Bob Huggins runs that offense at West Virginia and they are a great offensive rebounding team.

 

[OldGoldBeard]

from here.

Keeping the fire burning... Kept pushing hard...

Bernie Fine jokes aside, this more than "suggests," in my mind... "Keep" usually implies a continuance, does it not?

Ah, snap, Strickland's bringing the heat! See Chris, that's how you debate, bringing up timely blog posts. Maybe if you had done that, you could have scored a few points here. No, leave it to my main man Strickland to bring up fresh, new blog articles that have never been posted or discussed on this thread before.

I think I'm going to have to offer an apology to my homeboy here. At first, I kept reading those articles and thinking, "Abatemarco, Abatemarco everywhere, but but a Bzz to see." Then it clicked. See, I never realized that Jeff [Redacted] and Tom Abatemarco were the same person. It makes sense when you review "their" biographies: journeyman careers, stints in the (W)NBA, and wardrobes that make Bobby Huggins look like Barney Stimson. Even the Twitter feed checks out: "Watch coach Buzz on ESPN 2 tonight Wake plays Dayton Go Jeff". Yes, go "Jeff" indeed.

While just as sage and salient as the rest of your points, I think the argument that, "There is literally no evidence Jeff [Redacted] [Tom Abatemarco] wouldn't have signed Roberson" cuts both ways. After all, is there really any evidence that Bzz wouldn't have quit his job at Colorado to become a ringmaster at Barnum and Bailey's? Hear me out. He's already got the wardrobe, and can't you just imagine twelve clowns spilling out of that Prius of his, then thirteen as the crowd screams in disbelief, then fourteen, and last (drum roll) Ty Walker, the tallest clown of all?

It's something to think about, Strickland. Something to think about.

 

[Strickland33]

Was he actually offered while [Redacted] was head coach? If [Redacted] is supposed to get credit for recognizing this great rebounder, I assume he offered him a scholarship?

Whether or not he offered him a scholarship is not the point. It's merely to say that if Fischer, Green, and Fields are "Dino's guys" signed by [Redacted] (used as evidence that Bzz can't recruit), then Andre Roberson is a [Redacted]-guy, who was signed by Boyle.

Here's an article from March 12, 2010.

Once he got comfortable and confident as one of Wagner’s leaders, his numbers have skyrocketed to 15.2 points and 11.6 rebounds.

Andre is still unsigned, but has multiple Division I scholarship offers.

“I think my game’s developed because of all those little things you work on every day,” Andre said. “Just technical things that became natural.”

Wagner coach Clifton Ellis has a simpler explanation.

“He has great instincts for the ball,” Ellis said. “Years of fighting your sisters for a rebound will do that.”

from here.

 

[Fuck Your Couch]

I don't think anyone has called the 2011 class "Dino's guys". In fact they are usually called Bz's guys in a derisive manner.

 

[Liquid Karma]

So [Redacted] didn't offer him a scholarship?

 

[Strickland33]

Ah, snap, Strickland's bringing the heat! See Chris, that's how you debate, bringing up timely blog posts. Maybe if you had done that, you could have scored a few points here. No, leave it to my main man Strickland to bring up fresh, new blog articles that have never been posted or discussed on this thread before.

I think I'm going to have to offer an apology to my homeboy here. At first, I kept reading those articles and thinking, "Abatemarco, Abatemarco everywhere, but but a Bzz to see." Then it clicked. See, I never realized that Jeff [Redacted] and Tom Abatemarco were the same person. It makes sense when you review "their" biographies: journeyman careers, stints in the (W)NBA, and wardrobes that make Bobby Huggins look like Barney Stimson. Even the Twitter feed checks out: "Watch coach Buzz on ESPN 2 tonight Wake plays Dayton Go Jeff". Yes, go "Jeff" indeed.

While just as sage and salient as the rest of your points, I think the argument that, "There is literally no evidence Jeff [Redacted] [Tom Abatemarco] wouldn't have signed Roberson" cuts both ways. After all, is there really any evidence that Bzz wouldn't have quit his job at Colorado to become a ringmaster at Barnum and Bailey's? Hear me out. He's already got the wardrobe, and can't you just imagine twelve clowns spilling out of that Prius of his, then thirteen as the crowd screams in disbelief, then fourteen, and last (drum roll) Ty Walker, the tallest clown of all?

It's something to think about, Strickland. Something to think about.

Oh snap! By that logic, I guess Dino and Skip couldn't recruit at all as head coaches, either! That Jeff Battle should have a head coaching gig by now...

What we know is that all indications suggest that Colorado was on Andre Roberson early and that, while he was not offered a scholarship, Colorado was positioned well prior to [Redacted] leaving to the point where it was a no-brainer once he signed. If this was not the case, then the likes of UCLA, UNLV, etc., who started to recruit him very late in the game, may have had a shot, as is often the case in late-stage recruitments that occur amidst coaching changes.

That being said, you really don't know anything about recruiting if you don't understand the connections between assistants and head coaches.

Oh, and I thought they taught y'all how to substantiate claims at the fancy academic behemoth that is Wake Forest! I'll trust Texas recruiting insiders in 2010 San Antonio far more to substantiate my claims than your completely irrational [Redacted]-hatred any day of the week.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

Oh snap! By that logic, I guess Dino and Skip couldn't recruit at all as head coaches, either! That Jeff Battle should have a head coaching gig by now...

I'm fairly sure that Dino and Skip offered scholarships to the players that came here, so that point's moot.

 

[Liquid Karma]

Can we get back to the topic at hand, which is that [Redacted]'s teams have never shown a propensity for above average rebounding, and his recruiting history shows no evidence of him identifying and bringing in great rebounders.

 

[Strickland33]

I'm fairly sure that Dino and Skip offered scholarships to the players that came here, so that point's moot.

So, Chase Fischer de-committed from Marshall on March 29, 2011 and signed with Wake soon after according to this article.

The prolific-scoring 6-foot-3 guard, who averaged 32.1 points last season, had given Marshall a verbal commitment as a ninth-grader. But shortly after Donnie Jones resigned as the Herd’s head coach on March 29 to take over UCF’s basketball program, Fischer de-committed.

It still appeared that Marshall had a good chance to hang onto Fischer, however, as new Herd coach Tom Herrion received rave reviews from the elder Fischer and began building a relationship with the family.

But, then, Chase Fischer made a visit to Wake Forest last week and new head coach Jeff Bzeldik won him over.

As a show of respect, John Fischer, the basketball-playing brothers’ father, telephoned Herrion and informed him of the decision.

By OGB's logic, that makes him a [Redacted] recruit, despite the fact that Battle had been recruiting him (I'm assuming for Dino and with Dino's blessing, of course) prior to [Redacted]'s arrival, as evidenced here:

But a Thundering Herd alumnus, Jeff Battle, made the right pitch. Battle, a point guard for Rick Huckabay's teams of the 1980s, was retained on the Wake staff when Jeff [Redacted] took over for Dino Gaudio in April.

"They continued to recruit me, so really, it was coach Battle," Fischer said.

 

[Fuck Your Couch]

At least for 2012, from ESPN:

Thomas brings the energy, especially on the glass. Strikes us as a player who simply has a passion for rebounding.

Arnaud is productive in so many areas and it all starts with the high motor he plays the game with every time he steps out on the floor. He's a versatile small forward on the perimeter with long arms and tremendous athleticism. In the transition game he finishes using his explosiveness. Offensively, he's a slasher and a solid shooter to 20 feet. Moto's a kid who is wired to score. He's also a great rebounder for his position with the ability to run with the ball and lead the break as long as his decisions stay solid. Watch his defense because he loves to defend and is capable of doing it almost anywhere on the court.

 

[Strickland33]

his recruiting history shows no evidence of him identifying and bringing in great rebounders.

Oh, but it does... and we're about to bring in three good positional rebounders in Thomas, Cavanaugh, and Moto.

 

[Liquid Karma]

Oh, but it does... and we're about to bring in three good positional rebounders in Thomas, Cavanaugh, and Moto.

Let's see it at the college level.

 

[Strickland33]

Let's see it at the college level.

What exactly are you arguing?

I've had to defend three distinctly separate arguments on this post now, all of which utilize three distinct logics.

I'm happy to defend my point, but I'm only after you clarify what it is exactly that you're arguing against.

 

[stonz]

I'm too lazy to look this up. Have there been successful teams (20+ wins in a major conference) that are ranked below 150 or so in offensive and defensive rebounding percentages? What about teams with those rankings that make it to the sweet 16 or better?

That's a lot of criteria, but I found some good examples looking at just last year:

-Michigan ranked 324th in offensive rebounding, while winning 21 games and making the round of 32 (to be fair, their defensive rebounding was well within the top 150).
-Richmond ranked 282nd in offensive rebounding, and 218th in defensive rebounding, while winning 29 games and making the Sweet 16. Depends if you want to call the A14 a major conference.
-Mississippi St won 17 games last year playing in the SEC, with both rebounding ranks outside the top 150.
-Boston College won 21 games playing in the ACC, ranking outside the top 200 in both rebounding measures.
-Missouri won 23 games and made the NCAAT out of the Big 12, with offensive rebounding just outside the top 150, and defensive rebounding ranking 317th.

Rebounding is definitely important, but I would guess (complete guess) that the biggest correlation has to do with turnover %.

Most important of the four factors, by a substantial amount, is shooting (i.e eFG% and opponents eFG%).

 

[Fuck Your Couch]

I honestly believe by midway through next season our best lineup could be CMM, CJ, Moto, Travis and Devin. I know it sounds ludicrous to put 3 freshmen in there but every single recent report (Telep, Daniels, et al) intimate that CMM will be our PG from day 1. Devin has skills that no one else on our team has. CMM, Devin and Moto already have college bodies as well. Adding Moto and Devin gives us strong rebounding players at the 3, 4 and 5.

 

[Deacsfan27]

That's a lot of criteria, but I found some good examples looking at just last year:

-Michigan ranked 324th in offensive rebounding, while winning 21 games and making the round of 32 (to be fair, their defensive rebounding was well within the top 150).
-Richmond ranked 282nd in offensive rebounding, and 218th in defensive rebounding, while winning 29 games and making the Sweet 16. Depends if you want to call the A14 a major conference.
-Mississippi St won 17 games last year playing in the SEC, with both rebounding ranks outside the top 150.
-Boston College won 21 games playing in the ACC, ranking outside the top 200 in both rebounding measures.
-Missouri won 23 games and made the NCAAT out of the Big 12, with offensive rebounding just outside the top 150, and defensive rebounding ranking 317th.



Most important of the four factors, by a substantial amount, is shooting (i.e eFG% and opponents eFG%).

Good to know. Thanks!

 

[DeacsOrDie]

Thomas will have an immediate impact next year strictly because he can hit the boards, HARD!

 

[Sgt Hulka]

That's a lot of criteria, but I found some good examples looking at just last year:

-Michigan ranked 324th in offensive rebounding, while winning 21 games and making the round of 32 (to be fair, their defensive rebounding was well within the top 150).
-Richmond ranked 282nd in offensive rebounding, and 218th in defensive rebounding, while winning 29 games and making the Sweet 16. Depends if you want to call the A14 a major conference.
-Mississippi St won 17 games last year playing in the SEC, with both rebounding ranks outside the top 150.
-Boston College won 21 games playing in the ACC, ranking outside the top 200 in both rebounding measures.
-Missouri won 23 games and made the NCAAT out of the Big 12, with offensive rebounding just outside the top 150, and defensive rebounding ranking 317th.



Most important of the four factors, by a substantial amount, is shooting (i.e eFG% and opponents eFG%).

By and large, I am guessing that those are outliers and not 3-5 year trends, like Bzzz. However, I don't feel like looking it up.