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Retired US Soccer / World Cup Thread (RIP)

deacvision7 said:
This is an absolutely fantastic point. Well said.
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A lot of the hispanic families also suffer from a culture gap, either by language, or the plain fact that they are close tight knit communities that keep to themselves and don't interact with the non-hispanic soccer communities. Many of these folks don't understand the idea of elite youth teams in the US or the fact that many offer scholarships for the poorer players. I run part of our club's rec program and I see plenty of hispanic kids playing in it because it's cheap, and they don't have any clue about elite level soccer in the US. But if those kids don't even know how to try out for the elite levels, what do you do?
 
BillBrasky said:
Followed a twitter link or two to try to figure out the methodology of the report and ended up here:

https://www.sfia.org/reports/512_20...sure-Activities-Topline-Participation-Report-

I'm not paying $245 to prove an e-point, but I suspect this is based off registrations. Something that we can all agree is a barrier for entry for lower income kids. But that doesn't change the fact that lower income Hispanic kids are playing soccer at a very high level. Just not within the single-entity structure that has become the modus operandi of the USSF.

Anyways lunch break is over. So I'll stop here. I assume my point is clear.
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This is the methodology from the 2013 report, which I'm assuming stays consistent throughout the years. Participation estimates are based on online interviews.

During January and February of 2013 ,a total of 42,356 online interviews were carried out with a
nationwide sample of individuals and households from the US Online Panel of over one million
people operated by Synovate/IPSOS. A total of 15,770 individual and 26,593 household surveys
were completed. The total panel is maintained to be representative of the US population for
people ages 6 and older. Over sampling of ethnic groups took place to boost response from
typically under responding groups.
Click to expand...
 
Fusiondad10 said:
A lot of the hispanic families also suffer from a culture gap, either by language, or the plain fact that they are close tight knit communities that keep to themselves and don't interact with the non-hispanic soccer communities. Many of these folks don't understand the idea of elite youth teams in the US or the fact that many offer scholarships for the poorer players. I run part of our club's rec program and I see plenty of hispanic kids playing in it because it's cheap, and they don't have any clue about elite level soccer in the US. But if those kids don't even know how to try out for the elite levels, what do you do?
Click to expand...

So if there's kid playing the sport for cheap the same way it's played in many countries around the world and they're as good as kids who play in the expensive system, isn't the problem the US system?
 
I think that's the point: that there is an informal system that doesn't feed into the mainstream.
 
There are a number of reasons we aren't able to produce elite talent that have already been hit upon. These are the biggest factors in my opinion:

1) Soccer is a rare sport in that it requires developing unique skills that don't really get developed in any other way. The only way to develop excellent dribbling and general touch on a soccer ball is to have the ball at your foot from 3-7 years old on a constant basis. With other sports, physical talents can be cross-trained or developed in other ways without even playing the sport. Using your feet to control an object is something you'd never use outside of soccer. You can't take a 10 year old athlete and make him an amazing soccer player. It's already too late to develop world class touch.
2) There is no incentive for clubs to develop a player outside MLS and maybe NASL/USL teams. The pay to play system the majority of youth teams operate in is based on bringing in as many paying kids as they can and winning games to further the club's reputation and bring in more kids. Everywhere else in the world develops talent to sell on for a fee or to use on their professional teams. Their model is to make their money from bigger clubs rather than off the backs of the kids they're training. Winning means little to nothing for academies, only developing top talent so other young talent will choose to play for them.
3) You won't find many top youth teams/academies investing in poor areas in the US because they can't be profitable, though this is changing as some MLS teams are realizing the potential. You just can't charge the fees that our system built on.
4) Developing players in a lot of Central/South American countries (and I would imagine any developing/third world area) can often mean taking them away from their family at a very young age, limited schooling and generally putting their entire lives into a soccer career. It's great for those who succeed, but those who don't essentially have nothing to fall back on, not even a high school education. We would never implement that type of training, with good reason. Even the athletes we joke about in high school/college are getting a much more formal education than what you'd find in many other countries.
 
PhDeac said:
So if there's kid playing the sport for cheap the same way it's played in many countries around the world and they're as good as kids who play in the expensive system, isn't the problem the US system?
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Yes. This isn't being debated.
 
deacvision7 said:
This is an absolutely fantastic point. Well said.
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Thanks!

More quality leagues/teams/organizations that start around 10-12 years old in more locations that play other local and regional teams of similar caliber is the solution.

That is the best way for the cream to rise to the top. The problem is finding a way to make it affordable and available.
 
HuskyDeac said:
There are a number of reasons we aren't able to produce elite talent that have already been hit upon. These are the biggest factors in my opinion:

2) There is no incentive for clubs to develop a player outside MLS and maybe NASL/USL teams. The pay to play system the majority of youth teams operate in is based on bringing in as many paying kids as they can and winning games to further the club's reputation and bring in more kids. Everywhere else in the world develops talent to sell on for a fee or to use on their professional teams. Their model is to make their money from bigger clubs rather than off the backs of the kids they're training. Winning means little to nothing for academies, only developing top talent so other young talent will choose to play for them.
Click to expand...

I've knocked Twins a couple times now and I also want to give them credit to this point. Never, ever, in my time there did they emphasize wins and losses to me as a matter of a way to evaluate. They always emphasized development of talent both as individual players and within the team dynamic.

Winning in youth level sports should always be secondary to developing skills and an understanding of the concepts of the game. Twins gets that and they deserve credit for that -- some coaches don't adhere to that but they aren't at the club for long.
 
deacvision7 said:
That is a very good way to collect a sample. Any idea on MOE?
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The 2012 participation survey sample size of 42,356 completed interviews provides a high degree of
statistical accuracy. All surveys are subject to some level of standard error — that is, the degree
to which the results might differ from those obtained by a complete census of every person in the
US. A sport with a participation rate of five percent has a confidence interval of plus or minus 0.21
percentage points at the 95 percent confidence level. This translates to plus or minus four percent
of participants
 
deacvision7 said:
I've knocked Twins a couple times now and I also want to give them credit to this point. Never, ever, in my time there did they emphasize wins and losses to me as a matter of a way to evaluate. They always emphasized development of talent both as individual players and within the team dynamic.

Winning in youth level sports should always be secondary to developing skills and an understanding of the concepts of the game. Twins gets that and they deserve credit for that -- some coaches don't adhere to that but they aren't at the club for long.
Click to expand...

Is that the club that gave you the boot for a post in a mafia thread? I'm hoping they came to their senses on that and reversed the decision?
 
DistrictDeacon said:
The 2012 participation survey sample size of 42,356 completed interviews provides a high degree of
statistical accuracy. All surveys are subject to some level of standard error — that is, the degree
to which the results might differ from those obtained by a complete census of every person in the
US. A sport with a participation rate of five percent has a confidence interval of plus or minus 0.21
percentage points at the 95 percent confidence level. This translates to plus or minus four percent
of participants
Click to expand...

Honestly surprised it was just a 95% confidence level. I guess they were worried their sampling to try to remove bias had them fearing a new bias into the results.
 
Screamindemon3 said:
Is that the club that gave you the boot for a post in a mafia thread? I'm hoping they came to their senses on that and reversed the decision?
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At RJR HS again right now. No bridges burned though, I shouldn't have posted it -- and absolute unforced error on my part, but whoever reported it is a damn clown as far as I'm concerned. They certainly never PM'd me about it and even went to the lengths to find my picture in the Reveal Yourself Thread to prove it was indeed me, something I wouldn't have denied anyway.

I didn't call out any particular player, but I understand the club's position on that one once it apparently went viral around the parents of players I was going to be coaching.
 
deacvision7 said:
At RJR HS again right now. No bridges burned though, I shouldn't have posted it -- and absolute unforced error on my part, but whoever reported it is a damn clown as far as I'm concerned. They certainly never PM'd me about it and even went to the lengths to find my picture in the Reveal Yourself Thread to prove it was indeed me, something I wouldn't have denied anyway.

I didn't call out any particular player, but I understand the club's position on that one once it apparently went viral around the parents of players I was going to be coaching.
Click to expand...

No one's job has ever been threatened because of their posts on a Chat Thread.


Just saying.
 
HuskyDeac said:
1) Soccer is a rare sport in that it requires developing unique skills that don't really get developed in any other way. The only way to develop excellent dribbling and general touch on a soccer ball is to have the ball at your foot from 3-7 years old on a constant basis. With other sports, physical talents can be cross-trained or developed in other ways without even playing the sport. Using your feet to control an object is something you'd never use outside of soccer. You can't take a 10 year old athlete and make him an amazing soccer player. It's already too late to develop world class touch.
Click to expand...

I don't have the study in front of me, it's at home on computer. However, there was a group of US coaches that went over to the Netherlands to study soccer training there at an early age. There was a stark contrast in terms of American kids vs. Dutch kids. At a Dutch practice, every kid had a ball at their feet. They touched the ball at training at something crazy like 4x the average American kid. I think this is still a major issue. They typically didn't even play competitive games until U10 or so. Here, we are still having kids play each other at U5 rec games instead of focusing on touch. Positioning, schemes, strategies, can be developed/taught. Touch cannot.
 
deacvision7 said:
Skills improve as you play more and more players/teams on your skill level or above your skill level. So yes.
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But people seem to be saying the hypothetical poor Latino kid who gets good by playing with his friends and at his poor rural school would be better off going to Europe than getting into the US system.

Fayettenam said:
I don't have the study in front of me, it's at home on computer. However, there was a group of US coaches that went over to the Netherlands to study soccer training there at an early age. There was a stark contrast in terms of American kids vs. Dutch kids. At a Dutch practice, every kid had a ball at their feet. They touched the ball at training at something crazy like 4x the average American kid. I think this is still a major issue. They typically didn't even play competitive games until U10 or so. Here, we are still having kids play each other at U5 rec games instead of focusing on touch. Positioning, schemes, strategies, can be developed/taught. Touch cannot.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Perhaps that's why US teams don't seem like they have the feel for the game that others do.
 
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