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Retired US Soccer / World Cup Thread (RIP)

siff said:
It does, just as flopping in NBA basketball does. Or ignoring the three second rule. Or gimmicks like moving the ball to the other side of the court upon calling timeout after inbounding the ball.
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You understand the difference, right?
 
AttilatheHoo said:
diving in soccer really sucks.

figured Brazil will be good enough to not have to resort to it.
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I thought a Grantland piece a few weeks ago did an excellent job of explaining the prevalence of diving in soccer. Here's the excerpt:


How many times does Chris Paul appear to get punched/clawed/clotheslined and otherwise battered about the head and shoulders in a game? What if there were only one referee to officiate whether he was faking or fouled? Now imagine that a foul in the lane meant Paul got a free throw worth 30 points. It doesn’t have to be a shooting foul — any old reach-in, grab, or hold will do. Imagine how often Paul would go flying when he got into the lane. And again, imagine one referee had to handle it all.

This is pretty much what happens in soccer. There’s only so much one person can do when charged with officiating the whole game. It’s no wonder con jobs are so effective, and with the rewards being so bountiful — a penalty, or having an opposing player sent off — it’s no wonder players do so much conning.

The argument surrounding flopping becomes a moral one. Should players do it or shouldn’t they? There’s a general understanding that it’s impossible for referees to correctly identify the flops from the fouls, the genuine elbows from the dramatic head tosses. The fact that this isn’t a red, yet this somehow is says as much.

So, yes, there’s a lot of flopping in soccer. No, that’s not because it’s different. It’s just easier to get away with. And when you do, you get a lot more for your team. Can it be off-putting? Absolutely. Should the sport do a better job of combating it? Without a doubt. Does it make the game fundamentally different from other sports? Not even a little.
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The easiest way to fix it would be through rule changes.

1. Leagues could review penalties after the game. Any clear dive in the box results in a yellow card, any clear dive outside of the box results in 1/2 or 1/3 of a yellow card (after 3 dives you get a yellow).

2. Instead of rewarding every penalty inside the box with a shot from the penalty spot, penalties should be taken from the spot of the foul if they occur outside of the 6-yard box. All other players would still start outside of the penalty area. A team that was awarded a penalty could alternatively elect to take a free kick from the nearest point outside the box. This would deflate the value of a penalty while more accurately reflecting (though still inflating) a teams goal scoring chances sans penalty.
 
RChildress107 said:
2. Instead of rewarding every penalty inside the box with a shot from the penalty spot, penalties should be taken from the spot of the foul if they occur outside of the 6-yard box. All other players would still start outside of the penalty area. A team that was awarded a penalty could alternatively elect to take a free kick from the nearest point outside the box. This would deflate the value of a penalty while more accurately reflecting (though still inflating) a teams goal scoring chances sans penalty.
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Facepalm
 
Oh the World Cup, that glorious time every four years where people who have spent the last 47 months ignoring soccer, stop by to tell us how hard they're trying to get into but just can't handle all the diving and complaining. Yet they have no problem with the exact same behavior being displayed every night by the stars of the NBA or when a WR pretends to be concussed every time he's touched on a crossing route.
 
To add to Grantland's point, only one ref and twice as many players and spread out over 10 times the area compared to basketball.
 
deacvision7 said:
Facepalm
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admittedly #2 is out there. However, the biggest reason, IMO, for the prevalence of diving (especially in or around the box) is that the incentive is far too great. Fred's chances of scoring from the position he was in were at best 20% or so. By diving he's increased his teams chances of scoring to north of 80%. In a game where 1 goal is often the difference you would be a fool not to dive in that situation.

Granted its not a perfect solution. A guy who gets fouled in the corner of the box near the goal line might have been looking at a routine cross for a wide open goal, whereas the guy who falls down in traffic near the spot was well marked. But in general any rule change which more accurately reflects the goal scoring opportunity taken away by the penalty would be a vast improvement.
 
All that being said COME ON YOU CAMEROONS!!!!!!!!! Gonna take my lunch break at Noon so I can watch the second half at this wing place down the street.
 
BillBrasky said:
Oh the World Cup, that glorious time every four years where people who have spent the last 47 months ignoring soccer, stop by to tell us how hard they're trying to get into but just can't handle all the diving and complaining. Yet they have no problem with the exact same behavior being displayed every night by the stars of the NBA or when a WR pretends to be concussed every time he's touched on a crossing route.
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I don't have a hard time getting into soccer. It's easily my second favorite sport behind Basketball. I'll be the first to tell you that flopping in the NBA is a problem. However, the NBA has been proactive in trying to reduce it's impact on the game. And the reward you get in basketball for flopping is minor compared to the reward you get for flopping in or near the penalty area in soccer.
 
deacvision7 said:
That tends to happen when somebody has a completely stupid idea.
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enlighten me. I'd say it's more radical than stupid

The best argument for awarding a penalty kick for any foul inside the penalty box is simply because that's how it's always been done. A natural and expected result of that is players trying to earn penalties (which are converted at a very high percentage) rather than attempting to score a goal once in the box. If you accept that diving is part of the game and that a wrongfully awarded penalty is just one of those luck of the draw type things that's a perfectly legitimate view to hold.

But if you are having a conversation about flopping in soccer (which I thought we were) it makes sense to take a look at the huge incentive penalties create and come up with ideas to minimize that incentive.
 
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Refs will never be able to see everything. Just start handing out retroactive red card for diving in the box. Also start handing out yellow cards to players when they bum rush the ref after a call they disagree with.

Rugby has it right. The players show the utmost respect to the refs because they know they are gone if they talk back.
 
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