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Roanoke VA Reporter & Cameraman Shot Dead on Live TV

Milhouse said:
why does it matter
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Why do racial relations matter? Because it's a big fucking deal in the U.S. Have you been under a rock your entire life? If you ignore or deny the problems, nothing will ever get better.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
It's difficult to explain why some of us don't equate black racism with white racism. I think it's because black racism is usually a reaction (crazy or not) to an oppressive white culture, so there is a level of understanding there, whereas white racism is founded in white supremacy. It's a flawed theory, but it's what I think.
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I agree with you to a large extent. But the "blame white people" argument doesn't work with Vester Flannagan. Because he felt oppressed doesn't absolve him from committing murder on, in part, racial grounds. His mental state was another large contributor to his actions.

At the end of the day, racism and hate are wrong in any form. It doesn't matter what form it comes in or the race of the perpetrator. We shouldn't accept it nor should we make excuses for it.
 
We can blame old white people for slashing funding for mental health and making guns way easier to get
 
BeachBumDeac said:
We can blame old white people for slashing funding for mental health and making guns way easier to get
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too bad he didn't get your memo and shot young white people instead

ETA: but seriously, the mental gymnastics y'all are going through to not call a spade a spade are ridiculous. nobody should be a target of violence because of their race. nobody.
 
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Did someone just use DISCRIMININATION against the dirty micks as an example of RACISM against whites?

Growing up on Long Island, if you ever blew your nose without a tissue into the air it was called an "Irish spit"
 
Racism:

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
 
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PhDeac said:
So your argument is that black people were prejudiced against Irish immigrants? No.

Prejudice against Irish people was perpetrated by white people and rooted in white supremacy although with a more restrictive definition of white than we have now.

You just gave another example of their point.
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I mean, let's be fair. Black people at the time were probably prejudiced against Irish immigrants too
 
MysteryMen said:
I mean, let's be fair. Black people at the time were probably prejudiced against Irish immigrants too
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Perhaps but black people were lower on the racial totem pole.
 
Scientific_racism_irish.jpg
 
DeaconBrews said:
too bad he didn't get your memo and shot young white people instead

ETA: but seriously, the mental gymnastics y'all are going through to not call a spade a spade are ridiculous. nobody should be a target of violence because of their race. nobody.
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who is the y'all here? Seems like a lot of people (except ELC) have acknowledged that there was a racial component to the murder
 
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BeachBumDeac said:
who is the y'all here? Seems like a lot of people (except ELC) have acknowledged that there was a racial component to the murder
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This.

It's also weird to see Brews and DG3 argue that race matters so much when the dominant contrariant perspective on here is that racism is dead and bootstraps or whatever.

It's also interesting to me that this is the case where racism is obviously at play because its arguably a muddier motivation than in other pretty clear cut examples of racism that are discussed (and dismissed) in the Tunnels daily. Admitting this isn't the same as downplaying the potential hate crime component of this case.

I'm glad y'all feel strongly about this, but you're arguing against a straw man.
 
Strickland33 said:
This.

It's also weird to see Brews and DG3 argue that race matters so much when the dominant contrariant perspective on here is that racism is dead and bootstraps or whatever.

It's also interesting to me that this is the case where racism is obviously at play because its arguably a muddier motivation than in other pretty clear cut examples of racism that are discussed (and dismissed) in the Tunnels daily. Admitting this isn't the same as downplaying the potential hate crime component of this case.

I'm glad y'all feel strongly about this, but you're arguing against a straw man.
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I've never said racism is dead. You'd have to be oblivious to think so. What straw man are we arguing against? The only thing being argued is that this was racially motivated as evidenced by his manifesto. We are just stating evidence while you guys perform mental backflips on how it wasn't racism or it was BUT (insert excuse.)
 
DG3 said:
I've never said racism is dead. You'd have to be oblivious to think so. What straw man are we arguing against? The only thing being argued is that this was racially motivated as evidenced by his manifesto. We are just stating evidence while you guys perform mental backflips on how it wasn't racism or it was BUT (insert excuse.)
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I'm saying that the sentiment is everywhere on the Tunnels, on every thread from education to police violence, from reproductive rights to voting rights.

You're arguing a straw man by saying that folks who are unwilling to claim this as a clear cut example of racial terrorism and violence are saying that this is not a racist incident.

DG3 said:
Disgruntled employee. Nothing to see here folks. If we pretend it wasn't a hate crime and ignore it long enough, maybe it'll just go away or the narrative will conveniently change.
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I don't see that on this thread.

I do see a lot of folks questioning racist motivation given the facts of the case. The manifesto, combined with the man's history of workplace issues and mental health issues, really complicates this case as a "response' to the Charleston massacre. Nobody is saying that this prick wasn't racist, but I do see people questioning this as an act of racial terrorism. I think that's reasonable and that the two points are far more complementary than either side is giving the other credit for.

Your incredibly proactive stance on this is admirable, but your standard for evidence is leaving out other contextual clues (eg history of workplace incidents, violence, and mental illness) that cast some suspicion on the manifesto's post-hoc justification of the act.

Nobody is saying it wasn't racism. That's the straw man argument. Lots of people are saying that it wasn't only racism.
 
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Again, I agree that it wasn't only racism. That would be a lazy conclusion. He was clearly deranged and needed help. Which, who knows, he may not have had access to. But this wasn't workplace violence. He was relieved of his duties two years ago. His time there had never overlapped with Allison Parker's (at least according to the early reports.) Given his career choice, he knew the impact of media and the widespread coverage murdering two people on live TV would get. He didn't kill them because they worked at WDBJ, he killed them because they were on live TV and he knew where to find them.
 
Strickland33 said:
I'm saying that the sentiment is everywhere on the Tunnels, on every thread from education to police violence, from reproductive rights to voting rights.

You're arguing a straw man by saying that folks who are unwilling to claim this as a clear cut example of racial terrorism and violence are saying that this is not a racist incident. I don't see that on this thread.

I do see a lot of folks questioning racist motivation given the facts of the case. The manifesto, combined with the man's history of workplace issues and mental health issues, really complicates this case as a "response' to the Charleston massacre. Nobody is saying that this prick wasn't racist, but I do see people questioning this as an act of racial terrorism. I think that's reasonable and that the two points are far more complementary than either side is giving the other credit for.

Your incredibly proactive stance on this is admirable, but your standard for evidence is leaving out other contextual clues (eg history of workplace incidents, violence, and mental illness) that cast some suspicion on the manifesto's post-hoc justification of the act.

Nobody is saying it wasn't racism. That's the straw man argument. Lots of people are saying that it wasn't only racism.
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I think it is pretty clear if you read his manifesto that his intention was to commit an act of racial terrorism. The whole mental health angle is complete BS. This dude was no more crazy than anyone else who murders innocent people. People need to stop making excuses for racist assholes because it doesn't fit their social paradigm. That includes people on both sides of the political aisle.
 
DG3 said:
Again, I agree that it wasn't only racism. That would be a lazy conclusion. He was clearly deranged and needed help. Which, who knows, he may not have had access to. But this wasn't workplace violence. He was relieved of his duties two years ago. His time there had never overlapped with Allison Parker's (at least according to the early reports.) Given his career choice, he knew the impact of media and the widespread coverage murdering two people on live TV would get. He didn't kill them because they worked at WDBJ, he killed them because they were on live TV and he knew where to find them.
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It can be workplace violence and racism. In this case, that's likely. That's the point.

Also, the bold just isn't true. He worked for the station while Parker was an intern. (I picked the source because it's hardly your typical liberal media.)

ROANOKE, Va. — The words are a part of everyday conversation — “swinging” by an address and going out in the “field.”

But in the twisted mind of Virginia gunman Vester Lee Flanagan II, they were pure racism — and saying them became a death sentence for Alison Parker.

The 24-year-old white reporter, who was murdered on live TV along with her cameraman, used the phrases as an intern at ­WDBJ TV in Roanoke in 2012, according to an internal complaint filed by Flanagan, who was black.

“One was something about ‘swinging’ by some place; the other was out in the ‘field,’ ” said the Jan. 21 report by assistant news director Greg Baldwin, which refers to Parker as Alison Bailey (her middle name).

Parker was never disciplined over the remarks, but Flanagan never forgot them.

Hours after gunning her and Adam Ward down during their broadcast Wednesday, Flanagan revealed in tweets that the comments were still fresh in his mind.

“Alison made racist comments,” Flanagan posted while he was on the run from cops.

“They hired her after that??” he wrote.
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From the manifesto:

“Why did I do it?” Mr. Flanagan said in the rambling fax message, which The New York Times obtained from a law enforcement official. “I was already on the edge. The church shooting was a tipping point. The victims’ initials are written on the bullets.”

He echoed the words of the accused Charleston gunman, Dylann Roof, and spoke of a race war. He also said Jehovah had told him to act. He spoke admiringly of the Columbine High School killers and the gunman who carried out the Virginia Tech massacre that left 32 people dead. At one point, he called his document a “Suicide Note for Friends and Family.”

The fax, which also contained allegations that he was repeatedly harassed, bullied and discriminated against for being black and gay, was turned over to law enforcement officials. On Twitter, he made similar charges of racism and harassment, adding that he had filed a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, a federal agency. A spokeswoman for the agency, Kimberly Smith-Brown, said federal law prohibited her from confirming whether the agency had received a complaint.
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Again, it can be both and, in this case, it is clearly both workplace violence and racially motivated murder. He had ties to both victims and considered their conduct as contributing towards, first, his harassment and then, his perceived wrongful termination. I'm not sure why it's so hard to accept this.
 
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Yeah, I hate all those people on this thread making excuses for this piece of shit
 
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