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Rolling Stone Article on UVA rape culture

I think Go's point is that rape is just as likely to happen in a co-ed residence hall run by university officials as it is to happen in a residential area housing only dudes that is somewhat independently run by the dudes themselves.

In other words, Go is full of it.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
#TABwilldefend
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Deadbolt said:
Why not? Football teams, Frats, actual street gangs...impressionable young men who are easily influenced become monsters to prove their loyalty, no matter who they have to destroy to get there...that's pretty much exactly how this works, isn't it?
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RChildress107 said:
A secretive group of wealthy, privileged white teenage males, whose top two topics of conversation are females and alcohol doesn't inherently create a rape culture? I don't think frats turn otherwise good people into rapists. I do think that frats create the type of environment where serial rapists can get away with whatever they want.

And it definitely happened more frequently than you realize in your time at Wake (unless you were there before '02 as I can't speak to that). It's not like a serial rapist would come into chapter and tell everyone "hey i raped some chick this weekend. Sweet right?" But it does make you wonder how many of the hookup stories you heard from your bros might have actually been something else going on.

My fraternity had around 60 guys in it. I knew most of them very well, but I did not know all of them well enough to definitively say that this never happened at my fraternity. Looking back there are several situations I witnessed or heard about that I wish I had looked into further.
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I was there from 97 to 00. Wake is a little bigger now, but in my time undergrad was like 3500 maybe? Greeks are roughly half the school. So that is down to like 1700. Of those greeks, Wake being Wake, probably only half to 2/3s those frat actually have hard partying cultures, so now we are down to like 1200 kids. I didnt know everyone but I more or less knew who everyone was in those circles. Everyone knew everyone's business, which made it fairly difficult just to get laid due to the size of the environment and the attendant gossip. Its a very small, enclosed world, no one is going to get away with being a 'serial rapist' in those circumstances.

Large schools add annonimity, which I can see making it much easier. You may see a girl at a party and hook up consensually nad then never see that girl ever again in your time at the University. That just doesnt happen at Wake though.
 
TheTwinAndreBen said:
I was there from 97 to 00. Wake is a little bigger now, but in my time undergrad was like 3500 maybe? Greeks are roughly half the school. So that is down to like 1700. Of those greeks, Wake being Wake, probably only half to 2/3s those frat actually have hard partying cultures, so now we are down to like 1200 kids. I didnt know everyone but I more or less knew who everyone was in those circles. Everyone knew everyone's business, which made it fairly difficult just to get laid due to the size of the environment and the attendant gossip. Its a very small, enclosed world, no one is going to get away with being a 'serial rapist' in those circumstances.

Large schools add annonimity, which I can see making it much easier. You may see a girl at a party and hook up consensually nad then never see that girl ever again in your time at the University. That just doesnt happen at Wake though.
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This seems like the exact reason many (most?) victims would fail to report rape at Wake, and why it would be easier for a serial rapist to get away with it under the circumstances.
 
I had no idea TAB overlapped my time at Wake.

A serial rapist is going to get away with it if women won't stand up and say, "Joe Blow raped me." And women are probably less likely to go public on a small campus in which everybody knows everybody else.
 
PhDeac said:
I think Go's point is that rape is just as likely to happen in a co-ed residence hall run by university officials as it is to happen in a residential area housing only dudes that is somewhat independently run by the dudes themselves.

In other words, Go is full of it.
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HAHAHAHA

Yes nothing illegal or illicit happens in Dorms.
 
I'm no fraternity lover/defender but in my experience I never saw an indication that fraternities encouraged a rape culture. Admittedly I was not one of the "cool guys" in my fraternity but I never heard a word about anything like that happening. If I had I would have been out of there in a heartbeat. Not to say it doesn't or didn't happen but I think the premise that fraternities inherently encourage or are accepting of that behavior is off the mark.
 
TexasDeac10 said:
Eh, just because rape happens in other contexts doesn't mean that fraternity culture doesn't encourage drunk rape.
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I would accept in some cases that rape is enabled but anything that involves alcohol, drugs and 18-21 year olds is a culture which will produce rape. To me that screams COLLEGE life, not just frat life.

Any fraternity that enables/encourages/protects is scum. Any college that enables/protects is scum. Period.
 
Jeff Fatt said:
I'm no fraternity lover/defender but in my experience I never saw an indication that fraternities encouraged a rape culture. Admittedly I was not one of the "cool guys" in my fraternity but I never heard a word about anything like that happening. If I had I would have been out of there in a heartbeat. Not to say it doesn't or didn't happen but I think the premise that fraternities inherently encourage or are accepting of that behavior is off the mark.
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I thought you were cool as shit.
 
encouraging "rape culture" does not mean that fraternities sit around and literally encourage each other to rape girls. Some of you don't seem to understand that.

There are many ways in which a fraternity enables "rape culture" in a way that geeds throwing a party in their dorm do not.
 
Haha, thanks but if I was, why wasn't I on the inside circle of gang rapes and other such activities???
 
RChildress107 said:
encouraging "rape culture" does not mean that fraternities sit around and literally encourage each other to rape girls. Some of you don't seem to understand that.

There are many ways in which a fraternity enables "rape culture" in a way that geeds throwing a party in their dorm do not.
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Enables and encourages are two vastly different things.
 
RChildress107 said:
encouraging "rape culture" does not mean that fraternities sit around and literally encourage each other to rape girls. Some of you don't seem to understand that.

There are many ways in which a fraternity enables "rape culture" in a way that geeds throwing a party in their dorm do not.
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this
 
Two emails in response - President Sullivan and Rector George Martin (sorry for the length):

To the University community:

I am writing in response to a Rolling Stone magazine article that negatively depicts the University of Virginia and its handling of sexual misconduct cases. Because of federal and state privacy laws, and out of respect for sexual assault survivors, we are very limited in what we can say about any of the cases mentioned in this article.

The article describes an alleged sexual assault of a female student at a fraternity house in September 2012, including many details that were previously not disclosed to University officials. I have asked the Charlottesville Police Department to formally investigate this incident, and the University will cooperate fully with the investigation.

The University takes seriously the issue of sexual misconduct, a significant problem that colleges and universities are grappling with across the nation. Our goal is to provide an environment that is as safe as possible for our students and the entire University community.

We have recently adopted several new initiatives and policies aimed at fostering a culture of reporting and raising awareness of the issues.

We want our students to feel comfortable coming forward with information when there are problems in the community and cooperating with local law enforcement and the student disciplinary process. We also want them to feel empowered to take action and to lead efforts to make our Grounds and our community a better place to live and learn.

We have been taking a leadership role on issues regarding sexual misconduct and violence. U.Va. hosted a national conference on this topic in February 2014. "Dialogue at U.Va.: Sexual Misconduct Among College Students" brought together national experts and professionals from approximately 60 colleges and universities to discuss best practices and strategies for prevention and response.

The HoosGotYourBack initiative, part of the Not On Our Grounds awareness campaign, was developed and launched in collaboration with students and with local Corner Merchants to increase active bystander behavior.

A number of other initiatives are also planned for the spring. Among them are the implementation of a new student sexual misconduct policy and a related training program, a campus climate survey, and an in-depth bystander intervention program that will include students, faculty, and staff.

More information about sexual violence education and resources is available on the University's website at http://www.virginia.edu/sexualviolence/

Finally, I want to underscore our commitment to marshaling all available resources to assist our students who confront issues related to sexual misconduct. Our dedicated Student Affairs staff devote countless hours to educating and counseling our students on issues regarding their health and safety, and they stand ready to assist whenever students need help.

Teresa A. Sullivan
President

_________________________________________________
Dear Members of the University Community:

We are deeply saddened and disturbed by the events reported in the recent Rolling Stone magazine article. Conduct of the sort described in the article is utterly unacceptable and will not be condoned at the University of Virginia.

Our focus continues to be, first and foremost, the safety and well-being of our students and of the University community as a whole. Sexual assault is an abhorrent violent crime, and it should be punished as a crime under applicable law.

On Wednesday, the President referred the specific allegations of criminal conduct contained in the Rolling Stone article to the Charlottesville Police Department. Many of the details contained in the article had not previously been disclosed to University officials. Fairness to all potentially affected persons, as well as privacy obligations and the rights of sexual assault survivors, necessitates that we refrain from comment on those specific allegations while law enforcement authorities carry out their work. We need not wait, however, to seek independent advice on some of the difficult issues raised by this case, and by sexual assault cases nationwide, in order to better protect our students and the University community.

As President Sullivan described yesterday, the University and University community have taken the initiative to address sexual misconduct in various ways. Earlier this year, before much of the current media attention was focused on the issue, President Sullivan convened a national conference that brought together experts and professionals from approximately 60 colleges and universities to discuss best practices and strategies for prevention and response. A number of other initiatives, including the HoosGotYourBack program and Not On Our Grounds awareness campaign, are underway or soon will commence.

In addition to these measures, we must do everything possible to ensure that the opportunity for a timely and appropriate law enforcement response is maximized, and that the University community is fully protected from future violence, even in situations where a sexual assault survivor chooses not to lodge a criminal or administrative complaint.

The issue of how to respond-lawfully, appropriately, and effectively-to credible information regarding alleged sexual assault in circumstances where the survivor declines to file a criminal or administrative complaint is a pressing and difficult national topic. Even if, as the Rolling Stone article asserts, the problem of sexual misconduct at other colleges and universities is comparable to that at the University of Virginia, the status quo is unacceptable, and the University of Virginia should be a leader in finding solutions.

Accordingly, and with the full support of President Sullivan, I contacted Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring and requested that, in addition to receiving the continued able assistance by his Office, the University be authorized to engage independent counsel to advise and assist the Board of Visitors and University administration in determining how the University can better deal with the issue of campus sexual assaults, including how best to maximize opportunities for successful criminal prosecution of sexual misconduct cases. The counsel will examine the relevant legal issues as well as the University's policies and processes, giving particular attention to the question of how to respond in situations where there is serious and credible information about sexual misconduct but no willing complainant. The counsel will share his findings and recommendations with the Board of Visitors, President Sullivan and the Attorney General.

General Herring and I have agreed that Mark Filip, a senior partner with the distinguished firm of Kirkland and Ellis, should lead this review. Mr. Filip is a former prosecutor, federal judge and deputy attorney general of the United States.

Again, this is a critical issue and we are committed to finding solutions.

Sincerely,

George Keith Martin
Rector
 
Many of the details contained in the article had not previously been disclosed to University officials.
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um, so they're calling the author/Jackie liars?
 
At this stage most of us are like 5+ years out of Wake. Not sure why people get so bent out of shape over defending or attacking Greek life.

This UVa story is fucked up disgusting. Obviously on some level, the frat in question is to blame as it seems like at the very best it did not discourage/punish/pursue, more likely covered up or at worst encouraged. But to me, the frat thing is comparable to other organized student groups. Athletic teams run into these same issues. I mean even fucking marching bands have these sorts of stories coming to light now. It makes me believe that it is more of a cultural, social and psychological issue that needs to be addressed at colleges everywhere. Geeds aren't off the hook, frats aren't to blame imo.

Also... The article did a great job of making me super pissed off at the smug administrators sitting around in bow ties.
 
The discussion on this thread is indicative of the problem. After patting ourselves on the back for how we would beat the shit out of the rapists, we proceed to talk about how the problem is exaggerated, or how it doesn't exist in our sphere of the world, or how our experience leads us to believe that the story is unbelievable.

As i said earlier I don't believe fraternities turn people into rapists. I know, however, that fraternities have a unique set of dynamics that enable, and sometimes even unknowingly encourage, the men who commit these crimes.

Fraternity brothers have a closer bond (to each other and to the organization) than most other college party throwers. This hinders (along with alcohol) our ability to objectively monitor each other's behavior. Most of us have experienced a drunk hook-up at some point and most of us have been told at some point that if we hook up with a girl who has had a few drinks that's considered rape.

So even if we do observe or hear about the questionable behavior of one of our brothers, we tend to assume that it's just a girl's misunderstanding or regret over behavior that is similar to our own. Or at worst we assume it was a drunk hook up that went further than either party wanted it to go. It's difficult to accept that one of our own goes to a party with the intent to pick out a vulnerable girl and rape her. It's much easier to simply miss or ignore the signs.

Does it happen in every pledge class? No. Does it happen at every fraternity? Probably not. Does it happen outside of fraternities? Of Course.

But at the end of the day Fraternities at Wake, including their brothers and alumni, would do best to take a second look before matter of factly declaring "this doesn't happen here."
 
doubledeac said:
Two emails in response - President Sullivan and Rector George Martin (sorry for the length):


The issue of how to respond-lawfully, appropriately, and effectively-to credible information regarding alleged sexual assault in circumstances where the survivor declines to file a criminal or administrative complaint is a pressing and difficult national topic. Even if, as the Rolling Stone article asserts, the problem of sexual misconduct at other colleges and universities is comparable to that at the University of Virginia, the status quo is unacceptable, and the University of Virginia should be a leader in finding solutions.
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Well I guess that's one way to put it.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
um, so they're calling the author/Jackie liars?
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Of course. What I'm interested to see is how long it takes before they shitcan the school counselor in the article who helped the girls and told them that, from her experience, the University was just going to ignore them.
 
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