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Romney Picks Paul Ryan as VP

Except Obama's plan has already extended Medicare's life by a decade. There's no such assessment of Ryan's plan.
 
You are usually more accurate than statements like that. Theoretically, under neither plan will anyone over 55 have their medicare be changed.
 
The main problem with Medicare isn't excessive spending (although that certainly doesn't help). The problem is that the rest of te nation can't support the baby boomers on Medicare.

We either have to gut the system, change te effective date (and change it so it goes into effect immediately), raise taxes, or means test it heavily.

In reality it should e a combination of those options. Ryan is the only one wiring to discuss it. Obama and Romney are both just kicking the can down the road.

Your "seniors ate too smart for 3 card monte" is humorous considering the only politician that isn't playing 3 card monte regarding Medicare is Paul Ryan. Obama and Romney are merely placating their base and kicking the problem on to the next president/congress.
 
Wrangor said:
The main problem with Medicare isn't excessive spending (although that certainly doesn't help). The problem is that the rest of te nation can't support the baby boomers on Medicare.

We either have to gut the system, change te effective date (and change it so it goes into effect immediately), raise taxes, or means test it heavily.

In reality it should e a combination of those options. Ryan is the only one wiring to discuss it. Obama and Romney are both just kicking the can down the road.

Your "seniors ate too smart for 3 card monte" is humorous considering the only politician that isn't playing 3 card monte regarding Medicare is Paul Ryan. Obama and Romney are merely placating their base and kicking the problem on to the next president/congress.
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Add change reimbursement to an outcomes based model, not FFS, and I agree. I do like the notion Ryan introduces around keeping original medicare and allowing vouchers for a private system with actuarial value limits. Payors and providers are doing some great work in this space and Medicare could learning something from it.
 
Oh, I forgot to add my required BKF disclaimer that I work in the insurance industry. Cant forget to mention that one.
 
CHDeac said:
Add change reimbursement to an outcomes based model, not FFS, and I agree. I do like the notion Ryan introduces around keeping original medicare and allowing vouchers for a private system with actuarial value limits. Payors and providers are doing some great work in this space and Medicare could learning something from it.
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I would agree with the outcome based model, but I am not sure how you can turn that boat around in feasible steps. Long term that has to be the goal though.
 
I haven't really done any research on this, but is it possible that the Medicare problem isn't a problem with the structure of it, just the current demographics? I.e., will Medicare be fine again after the baby boomers die off and there are fewer 65+ people in the US?
 
BeachBumDeac said:
I haven't really done any research on this, but is it possible that the Medicare problem isn't a problem with the structure of it, just the current demographics? I.e., will Medicare be fine again after the baby boomers die off and there are fewer 65+ people in the US?
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Yes, but also no. The way it works is that individuals will extract more in benefits than they pay in in taxes, so there more or less needs to be a certain multiple of workers for retirees. This is a bit of a simplification because more than one generation is in the workforce at a time, but the Boomers provided that multiple for the Depression generation and the Greatest Generation. Gen X and us Millennials aren't large enough for the Boomers, and unless there's another boom, the post-Millenials won't be numerous enough to support us. If per capita healthcare costs are held constant, the size of the deficit would eventually stabilize with the rate of population (non-)growth.
 
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THIS POST IS NOT MEANT TO CALL MEDICARE OR ANY OTHER GOVERNMENT PROGRAM A PONZI SCHEME


It sort of has mechanics similar to a Ponzi scheme, needing new buy-ins to pay off returns for more senior members. The discrepancy between benefits extracted and taxes paid in determines how much new buy-in is needed. Given geometric population growth and stable per capita health care costs (and no Dark Age style declines in the economy), it would work indefinitely. But population growth is slowing.


MEDICARE IS NOT A PONZI SCHEME
 
TuffaloDeac10 said:
THIS POST IS NOT MEANT TO CALL MEDICARE OR ANY OTHER GOVERNMENT PROGRAM A PONZI SCHEME


It sort of has mechanics similar to a Ponzi scheme, needing new buy-ins to pay off returns for more senior members. The discrepancy between benefits extracted and taxes paid in determines how much new buy-in is needed. Given geometric population growth and stable per capita health care costs (and no Dark Age style declines in the economy), it would work indefinitely. But population growth is slowing.


MEDICARE IS NOT A PONZI SCHEME
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I don't know why you say it isn't a ponzi scheme. It pretty much is, except the benefits are going to the people who paid in, but the structure is a failing structure because it is dependent on a constant flow or a growing flow of people paying into the system, which is the basic tenant of a ponzi scheme.

Medicare needs to be structurally reformatted to be able to handle the ebbs and flows of population shifts. Until that happens we will continue to be pushing the problem a few years down the road until eventually it runs out of money.
 
Medicare is doomed currently, but no problem. Just ask the GenXers to fork over all their money and ask the boomers to die. Until all the boomers are dead, ask the health care providers to work for nothing. It's not a Ponzi scheme. It'll be fine once the Medicaid babies grow up and become rich people whose income taxes can be hiked.
 
The reality is that Medicare is a dead man walking as it is currently constructed, and the only way to save it is to perform massive surgery. I am not claiming that Ryan's surgery is the best surgery, but it is the only actual solution that has been presented. You could easily present a tax solution and it would at least be a real solution that people could vote on. But lets not pretend that Obama is offering life for Medicare. He is putting a bandaid on a heart attack (so is Romney in reality). Ryan sharpens up the scalpels and goes to fix the problem. Disagree with his methods but at least he is addressing the real issue.
 
According to the CBO, Obama's plan in the ACA has extended Medicare's life for over a decade. Ryan's plan does nothing except increase costs for seniors.
 
Wrangor said:
The reality is that Medicare is a dead man walking as it is currently constructed, and the only way to save it is to perform massive surgery. I am not claiming that Ryan's surgery is the best surgery, but it is the only actual solution that has been presented. You could easily present a tax solution and it would at least be a real solution that people could vote on. But lets not pretend that Obama is offering life for Medicare. He is putting a bandaid on a heart attack (so is Romney in reality). Ryan sharpens up the scalpels and goes to fix the problem. Disagree with his methods but at least he is addressing the real issue.
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I think I'd rather put a band-aid on my heart attack than trust the wrong doctor to operate.
 
Wrangor said:
I don't know why you say it isn't a ponzi scheme. It pretty much is, except the benefits are going to the people who paid in, but the structure is a failing structure because it is dependent on a constant flow or a growing flow of people paying into the system, which is the basic tenant of a ponzi scheme.

Medicare needs to be structurally reformatted to be able to handle the ebbs and flows of population shifts. Until that happens we will continue to be pushing the problem a few years down the road until eventually it runs out of money.
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I find it's generally counterproductive to outright call any social insurance program a Ponzi scheme, even if those are the mechanics it uses. A Ponzi scheme has to be a Ponzi scheme, Medicare is just set up like one at this point in time.
 
PhDeac said:
I think I'd rather put a band-aid on my heart attack than trust the wrong doctor to operate.
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+1. One of the good things about kicking the can down the road is that we're stuck on that road. We'll have to deal with it at some point, and I don't have a problem with granting future generations the right to make those decisions themselves.
 
TuffaloDeac10 said:
I find it's generally counterproductive to outright call any social insurance program a Ponzi scheme, even if those are the mechanics it uses. A Ponzi scheme has to be a Ponzi scheme, Medicare is just set up like one at this point in time.
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Which part of medicare is a functional Ponzi scheme? How would you set it up?
 
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