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Same sex marriage

Wrangor said:
I love vad's neg rep as well when I support equal rights for all couples. I was just commenting on the politics of the issue which is clearly just meant to change the subject.
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I think he was neg repping it because it's a stupid point. Should politicians just drop everything and only focus on one topic at a time? Are they supposed to stop all the work they do on other issues when something happens?

People are capable of multi-tasking and thinking about more than one thing at a time.

In response to your other post, I'm not sure where numbers got his, well, numbers, but here is a poll showing 58% of adults supporting marriage equality.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...riage-support-hits-new-high-in-post-abc-poll/


Edit to add: It's not like ACA is front page news right now anyway. If they had announced this the day after the rollout, then you might have a point.
 
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BeachBumDeac said:
I think he was neg repping it because it's a stupid point. Should politicians just drop everything and only focus on one topic at a time? Are they supposed to stop all the work they do on other issues when something happens?

People are capable of multi-tasking and thinking about more than one thing at a time.

In response to your other post, I'm not sure where numbers got his, well, numbers, but here is a poll showing 58% of adults supporting marriage equality.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...riage-support-hits-new-high-in-post-abc-poll/


Edit to add: It's not like ACA is front page news right now anyway. If they had announced this the day after the rollout, then you might have a point.
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It is not a stupid point. It is a point he disagrees with (and apparently you do as well). It is a subjective opinion. Your disagreement does not make it stupid. But that is exactly how this board works. You disagree with me, so my point is stupid. Good grief.
 
Wrangor said:
It is not a stupid point. It is a point he disagrees with (and apparently you do as well). It is a subjective opinion. Your disagreement does not make it stupid. But that is exactly how this board works. You disagree with me, so my point is stupid. Good grief.
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In my opinion, it is a stupid point. Are you saying that nothing you disagree with is stupid?

I'm not calling YOU stupid, just the point you tried to make
 
Wrangor said:
Not arguing any points but how in the world does 59% + 58% + 31% equal 58% of all americans? That doesn't seem to add up.

Assuming we are 40/40/20 on the splits (which is probably giving more weight to independents than they deserve the percentages you just named add up to 47% supporting gay marriage.
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Think your weighting is off-42% independents, 31% Dems, 25% GOP. http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014...l-affiliation-at-its-lowest-point-in-25-years. The GOP is the only party where a majority opposes marriage equality.
 
I'm a registered republican and am in favor of marriage equality and the legalization of marriage.

I suppose I'd really be considered an independent but if everybody flees the Republican Party nobody is left to change it.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
In my opinion, it is a stupid point. Are you saying that nothing you disagree with is stupid?

I'm not calling YOU stupid, just the point you tried to make
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I'm saying that is the M.O of you and some others of this board. When disagreements arise opinions are labeled. There is plenty of evidence to point to Obama caring a lot more about politics than policy. It doesn't mean that the policy is crap it just means the result isn't always the main motivation.

Obama knows if he doesn't turn around the dialogue the Dems are going to be slaughtered in the midterms so this year is going to be a lot of pandering. Very soon we are going to see the class warfare angle being promoted (or something similar). Don't gets wrong, the republicans would be doing the same thing if they were in a similar position but this is a lot more about political positioning than it is policy.

It is political expedient for Obama to be for gay marriage. There is a reason he was against it before he was for it. The political winds changed and Obama changed with it because it was good for his numbers.

So you are welcome to disagree with me, I honor your opinion. I just get tired of every dissenting opinion being labeled as stupid, idiotic,etc..... It is lazy.
 
Wrangor once met a guy who he thought would affiliate as independent but actually said he affiliated as Republican. So let's put these crazy polling data to rest.
 
bigdoublezero said:
Wrangor once met a guy who he thought would affiliate as independent but actually said he affiliated as Republican. So let's put these crazy polling data to rest.
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ZING!

Why are you so anxious to pick a fight? Is it not possible to have a single discussion without posting some idiotic zinger directed at me?

Do you really think it is that unreasonable to be skeptical about a poll that claims that almost half of our electorate is an independent voter? Even if I am wrong (which is certainly possible) do you always have to respond by attempting to marginalize me? It grows weary and your jokes really aren't that funny anyway. If you do choose to continue this please increase your comedic factor.
 
Wrangor said:
ZING!

Why are you so anxious to pick a fight? Is it not possible to have a single discussion without posting some idiotic zinger directed at me?

Do you really think it is that unreasonable to be skeptical about a poll that claims that almost half of our electorate is an independent voter? Even if I am wrong (which is certainly possible) do you always have to respond by attempting to marginalize me? It grows weary and your jokes really aren't that funny anyway. If you do choose to continue this please increase your comedic factor.
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It's okay to be skeptical, if you actually back up your skepticism with other research. You rarely, if ever, present evidence for your side. You just use anecdotal evidence and opinions and expect us to take them as seriously as data and research. It's kind of silly
 
BeachBumDeac said:
It's okay to be skeptical, if you actually back up your skepticism with other research. You rarely, if ever, present evidence for your side. You just use anecdotal evidence and opinions and expect us to take them as seriously as data and research. It's kind of silly
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And my skepticism is warranted in this case. Take the voting history state by state. Why are the large majority called blue and red states? Because their voting pattern is consistent. Their electorate votes a certain way the LARGE majority of the time. How many states are truly up for grab, and in those states how many votes are truly up for grab? A poll that asks people to identify themselves is a bad poll. Ask people their voting history. Take a look at the historical numbers state by state of voting patterns. If we had 2/5ths of our electorate who were truly independent we would see much more volatility in presidential elections. The last president to win even 60% of the popular vote was Tricky Dick and that was 38 years ago. In the past 20 years we haven't a single president crack the 53% barrier.

When we actually had a viable independent candidate (sort of) run in Ross Perot he received 18.9% of the vote, and that was 22 years ago. We are a polarized political community. Everyone wants to call themselves independent or moderate, but in reality we are nothing of the sort. You know this, I know this, the voting numbers bear this out. That is the point I was making. I shouldn't have to go into an extended soliloquy just to make a comment that isn't cheapshotted.

And this has nothing to do with the thread, so back to the regular scheduled program..
 
BeachBumDeac said:
Those people who identify as independent still lean either left or right, and thus vote more often that way that they lean. That doesn't mean they identify as Democrat or Republican.

The ~40% independent stat is pretty consistent:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx
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There is also a difference between likely voters and the general population. I would guess actual party affiliation to be a stronger indicator of whether someone is actually going to vote.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
Those people who identify as independent still lean either left or right, and thus vote more often that way that they lean. That doesn't mean they identify as Democrat or Republican.

The ~40% independent stat is pretty consistent:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx
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Yep, and this is where the majority (excuse me, plurality) of the country is. It isn't a breakdown of Republican = conservative, democrat = liberal, and independent = moderate, it's about party affiliation. Anecdotal evidence, sure, but this fits me. I've never been a part of either party, have voted almost exclusively democrat (about 80%) but would never join the democratic party. If the GOP would ever nominate someone worth electing (i.e. what huntsman appeared to be), I'd have no problem voting for them despite the (R) beside their name.

edit - btw, I do think Wrangor does get more than his fair share of undeserved crap thrown his way. He's shown himself to be consistent and thoughtful in his posts, even when they are unpopular on this board. What's funny to me to think is that while he's lifted up as the paragon of the far right on here, he's probably that dirty liberal hippie to his Miss. farmer buddies.
 
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IamThunderbolt said:
What's funny to me to think is that while he's lifted up as the paragon of the far right on here, he's probably that dirty liberal hippie to his Miss. farmer buddies.
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Glad someone else sees the irony.
 
Wrangor said:
This country is 42% independent? Excuse my French but I call serious bullshit on that one :).
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I wasn't surprised at all by the 42% figure. While the Green or Peace & Freedom party are to the left of the Dems, is there an alternative party that is right of the GOP? Not familiar with one, so a fair amount of independents (20%?) are probably conservatives who think the GOP is "too liberal". Where do you think all the RINO talk comes from? Congress doesn't get a 11% approval rating in a 50/50 America. The majority of independents are moderates who don't feel either polarized ideological party fist/serves their views.

You don't get to 58% support for marriage approval without huge support from Dems (~75%) and independents (~60%) to offset GOP resistance (~67%). Holder isn't doing something that the Dem base doesn't support and it certainly doesn't hurt that the GOP base will continue to fight an increasingly losing battle in an aggressive manner that alienates the center of the electorate.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
As of July 2013, 59% of Democrats, 58% of Independents, and just 31% of Republicans support same-sex marriage. That's just marriage, not even legal unions.

But yeah you're right, it was probably just political and not based on the fact that a majority of American adults (58%) support marriage equality.
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Sweet. So since we are going off of majority opinion, when do we get to repeal Obamacare?
 
1. most "independents" are not really independent. (Mitt Romney can attest to this. He won "independents" handily.)
2. this action is a logical step in the implementation of Windsor Whether or not you support that decision (I do), this is not breaking new ground - this is just the feds following the law.
 
TheShot said:
1. most "independents" are not really independent. (Mitt Romney can attest to this. He won "independents" handily.)
2. this action is a logical step in the implementation of Windsor Whether or not you support that decision (I do), this is not breaking new ground - this is just the feds following the law.
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You going to take that lying down, Karl?
 
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