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Saudi World Golf Tour 2022/2023 Thread

donaldross said:
I disagree about the law. I believe the PGA Tour will lose this battle. We will certainly find out who is right about that.

Even if the PGA Tour wins in Court, the long term reality is that if you exclude 20% (soon to be closer to 40%) of the best best players in the world, your tour is at a massive competitive disadvantage.

I guess it will be interesting to see what happens with the USGA and the European Tour. I expect they will have the position that they are supporters of golf -- not a particular random Florida corporation. I bet that view will prevail long term too. I expect you will see Na at both Brookline and St. Andrews. And that you will also see many on this list in the Scottish Open.

I was very confused to read above "No one cares about golf being played in Saudi Arabia." I checked again and, indeed, for the most part, these events will be right here in the USA. I'm looking forward to going to a couple later this year. https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/liv-golf-invitational-series-schedule-and-prize-money
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What do you believe to be the winning legal argument against the Tour?
 
scooter84 said:
What do you believe to be the winning legal argument against the Tour?
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Antitrust & employment legal issues. I'll pass on drafting a brief for now. That is, if they actually do what they say they are going to do and ban players for a significant amount of time. I'm not sure they actually will. Bluffing they would was a no brainer.

And I really like Billy Horschel! Always great to me and a lot of fun to be around.
 
donaldross said:
I disagree about the law. I believe the PGA Tour will lose this battle. We will certainly find out who is right about that.

Even if the PGA Tour wins in Court, the long term reality is that if you exclude 20% (soon to be closer to 40%) of the best best players in the world, your tour is at a massive competitive disadvantage.

I guess it will be interesting to see what happens with the USGA and the European Tour. I expect they will have the position that they are supporters of golf -- not a particular random Florida corporation. I bet that view will prevail long term too. I expect you will see Na at both Brookline and St. Andrews. And that you will also see many on this list in the Scottish Open.

I was very confused to read above "No one cares about golf being played in Saudi Arabia." I checked again and, indeed, for the most part, these events will be right here in the USA. I'm looking forward to going to a couple later this year. https://www.golfmonthly.com/news/liv-golf-invitational-series-schedule-and-prize-money
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Contrarianism can be a drug.

And also, LOL at 20% now and 40% later of the best players in the world. It has 16 of the top 100. That is TERRIBLE. Absolutely awful. And look at the rest of the field. The ones that are desperate - for a reason - to make some money. You put a Korn Ferry tourney in my city up against this LIV field and I would go to the Korn Ferry tourney. It's a laughable field. You get maybe one foursome that would be worth going to see, but who the fuck cares to see those 4 play against and beat THIS field? It's a terrible tournament if you even have 20 top 100 ranked players if they are back-end top 100 players and the rest of the field is made up of guys that won first flight in their local club championships.

The PGA Tour absolutely can do what they are doing. They have every right to have membership requirements. If you dont meet those requirements, then you don't get to play. Again, the PGA Tour isn't saying that you can't play the LIV tour. They are saying you can't play our tour.
 
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Like with Wake Forest basketball, we do get to see who is right. And soon!
 
Sounds like Rickie and Phil announcement coming very soon.
 
Ricky's not even in the top 100 for the FedEx. Not sure his fans have been watching him for his play all that much over the past few years - now that he's selling out I wouldn't be surprised if he loses most of the support he had left. It'll be funny to see him forced to wear a non-orange uniform without a stupid flat-brimmed hat for once...
 
donaldross said:
Antitrust & employment legal issues. I'll pass on drafting a brief for now. That is, if they actually do what they say they are going to do and ban players for a significant amount of time. I'm not sure they actually will. Bluffing they would was a no brainer.

And I really like Billy Horschel! Always great to me and a lot of fun to be around.
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Antitrust is not my area of expertise. Neither is employment law, but I am not sure I see how that applies as the players are not employees. The PGA Tour is not the only game in town, there are lots of other places for professional golfers to play - Asian, European, regional, mini tours - plus the LIV now. Players are free to do so, as long as they meet whatever membership or participation criteria each of those tours sets. The PGA tour also has membership and participation criteria that players must meet. As long as those criteria are not discriminatory, it seems like they should be able to set them as they see fit.

They lost against Casey Martin on the walking requirement years ago, because that was deemed discriminatory. Will their process of exemption requests to play on other tours and other participation requirements be deemed discriminatory or otherwise illegal? I can't say for sure but I don't think it is an obvious or easy argument to make.
 
Another legal question I have even if the Tour can bar them from playing while they are playing on the LIV tour, what happens if they stop or if the LIV folds? Can/will they prevent the players from getting their tour card back by going through Q school, or playing on sponsor exemptions, or, in the case of DJ, a lifetime exemption since he has over 20 wins?
 
If the top 300 baseball players could all 10x their earnings by playing in a new league run by a fiscally insane person, the answer ought be "Go play, good for you, come back if they go broke throwing you stupid money."

Instead, the PGA tour is fabricating that this is a human rights issue to protect it's own financial interests. Don't do business, all of a sudden, with a particular country because they have "some" mean people in their race/nationality. I am surprised the "woke" masses haven't called this out for what it is.

And, if you don't know how to spell Rickie Fowler's name, well...

As one of golf's much bigger than I agent told me recently. "I told the Saudis to put the money in escrow. I didn't believe them. Then they did."

If some are pretending to be on some moral high ground to protect ordinary PGA Tour events at the expense of players pursuing 10x raises, well shame on you.
 
scooter84 said:
Antitrust is not my area of expertise. Neither is employment law, but I am not sure I see how that applies as the players are not employees. The PGA Tour is not the only game in town, there are lots of other places for professional golfers to play - Asian, European, regional, mini tours - plus the LIV now. Players are free to do so, as long as they meet whatever membership or participation criteria each of those tours sets. The PGA tour also has membership and participation criteria that players must meet. As long as those criteria are not discriminatory, it seems like they should be able to set them as they see fit.

They lost against Casey Martin on the walking requirement years ago, because that was deemed discriminatory. Will their process of exemption requests to play on other tours and other participation requirements be deemed discriminatory or otherwise illegal? I can't say for sure but I don't think it is an obvious or easy argument to make.
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I mean, all those other tours in the USA are understood to be stepping stones to the PGA Tour. The PGA tour sort of does have a monopoly on USA based elite professional golf.
 
donaldross said:
If the top 300 baseball players could all 10x their earnings by playing in a new league run by a fiscally insane person, the answer ought be "Go play, good for you, come back if they go broke throwing you stupid money."

Instead, the PGA tour is fabricating that this is a human rights issue to protect it's own financial interests. Don't do business, all of a sudden, with a particular country because they have "some" mean people in their race/nationality. I am surprised the "woke" masses haven't called this out for what it is.

And, if you don't know how to spell Rickie Fowler's name, well...

As one of golf's much bigger than I agent told me recently. "I told the Saudis to put the money in escrow. I didn't believe them. Then they did."

If some are pretending to be on some moral high ground to protect ordinary PGA Tour events at the expense of players pursuing 10x raises, well shame on you.
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Wrong again. You go by donaldross - are you a golfer and do you follow golf? Serious question.

That's not the PGA Tour stance. The stance is that by joining a rival startup tour you are putting the tournaments, host cities, partners, sponsors, charities, etc at risk by turning your back on them. Those things are what the PGA Tour is based on and what it has always been about. And in turn, you are affecting the success of the PGA Tour's ability to maximise benefits for the tour playing members. You cant let players straddle both.

See what I quoted earlier from Mark Twain. He says it better than I can. I don't know why this is so difficult for some. The PGA Tour players are not employees - they are MEMBER who agree to certain requirements by becoming a member.
 
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DCDeac said:
Ricky's not even in the top 100 for the FedEx. Not sure his fans have been watching him for his play all that much over the past few years - now that he's selling out I wouldn't be surprised if he loses most of the support he had left. It'll be funny to see him forced to wear a non-orange uniform without a stupid flat-brimmed hat for once...
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I think we're exaggerating the amount of public support these guys will lose by going to the LIV tour. Sponsors yes, but not necessarily much public support. And frankly, I'm not put out that Ricky is bolting for the LIV. I don't think he'd do it if he were still a top 50 player. But his game has been completely at sea now for the last 3-4 years. I don't really blame the Garcias, Larrazabals and Schwartzels for taking a big pay day near the end of their runs. Hell, it's even hard to blame DJ for taking a $125mil pay day, especially if he thinks he can still play in the majors. But the 2 guys who I've completely lost respect for are Taylor Gooch and Sam Horsefield. They're both top 100 young guns who have already won on their tours and are just coming into their primes. They're giving up majors, Order of Merit/FedEx and playing to win tournaments that matter. Few golf fans will care who wins these LIV tournaments, and they won't be accumulating any world ranking points along the way. After the LIV collapses in 2-3 years, they'll have to serve the remainder of their suspensions and then re-qualify for their respective tours.
 
guitardeac said:
Wrong again. You go by donaldross - are you a golfer and do you follow golf? Serious question.
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Yes, I'm a single digit handicapper and I've attend 57 majors in person. What the heck does that have to do with this discussion? But sure....yes.
 
I was paired with Rickie at the Wells Fargo a few years ago and he was the nicest, friendliest, coolest, and fun guy I think I've ever been around. I was sad when the round was over. It was the year he was leading going into Sunday but played poorly Sunday and lost. he's awesome. But he's finished in all likelihood as far as winning on the PGA Tour so he may as well go provide for his family for a year or two until LIV folds. But Rickie has been replaced by several other guys on Tour just like him so nobody cares he's not going to be playing the PGA Tour. I do think it hurts his image some. Not necessarily because of the Saudi connection but because it comes across as a non-golf move. Fans want their athletes to be about winning and matching up against the best not just in the present, but in the past. If a player goes to LIV it is 100% about the paycheck. Its just not as romantic for fans.
 
donaldross said:
Instead, the PGA tour is fabricating that this is a human rights issue to protect it's own financial interests. Don't do business, all of a sudden, with a particular country because they have "some" mean people in their race/nationality. I am surprised the 'woke' masses haven't called this out for what it is.
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You mean like Phil Mickelson did? "Scary motherfuckers." Oh wait.

What's your next argument?
 
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