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Saudi World Golf Tour 2022/2023 Thread

This all sucks ass for the end consumer. PGA announcing $54 million more in purses coming from sponsors and their "operating reserve". Has to mean more commercials coming in the future, and there already are so many.

Probably will end with guaranteed money for all, so less need to compete to make a cut. I'd be pro paying everyone like 5-10K for showing up, but no massive appearance money. Wrap around season ending is good though, it is trash.
 
donaldross said:
No I was 100% right and you were wrong. The LIV, if handled the way Monahan approached it, will result in millions and millions more for PGA Tours. Phil and Norman won.

If the PGA Tour does try to actually enforce their bans, which I seriously doubt now that they have admitted their approach was horrible, they will lose in Court too.
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Nice dodge.

Now your argument, although vague, is apparently that the PGAT lost money by their approach to this. Not sure anyone here argued in support of the PGAT "approach", I did not.

Everyone's focus on here was pretty much on who was leaving the PGAT and who was staying with the PGAT, and the outcome of the predicted litigation between the PGAT and those players who the PGAT suspended. It doesn't look like that is going to happen.

At the start of this, your focus was on how the PGAT unfairly treated independent contractor golfers, by restricting their access to non PGAT events. That issue seems to have disappeared as those that left appear to have voluntarily surrendered their right to play on the PGA Tour, by giving up their tour cards, and signing on to LIV contracts which prevents them from playing in PGAT events. So, DJ won't be playing in the RBC Heritage Open because his LIV Contract prevents him from doing so; not because of a PGAT ban.
 
Pilchard said:
Nice dodge.

Now your argument, although vague, is apparently that the PGAT lost money by their approach to this. Not sure anyone here argued in support of the PGAT "approach", I did not.

Everyone's focus on here was pretty much on who was leaving the PGAT and who was staying with the PGAT, and the outcome of the predicted litigation between the PGAT and those players who the PGAT suspended. It doesn't look like that is going to happen.

At the start of this, your focus was on how the PGAT unfairly treated independent contractor golfers, by restricting their access to non PGAT events. That issue seems to have disappeared as those that left appear to have voluntarily surrendered their right to play on the PGA Tour, by giving up their tour cards, and signing on to LIV contracts which prevents them from playing in PGAT events. So, DJ won't be playing in the RBC Heritage Open because his LIV Contract prevents him from doing so; not because of a PGAT ban.
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I've read the LIV contracts. They don't say that. So you're wrong.
 
You've read all the contracts for all of the PGAT players that signed with LIV?

So, you know the terms of each contract?
 
Pilchard said:
You've read all the contracts for all of the PGAT players that signed with LIV?

So, you know the terms of each contract?
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not all of them but 2. and they aren't exclusive. where did you hear they were exclusive? liv has and always has encouraged players to play any and everywhere as you can plainly see by LIV players in the US Open and the European tour this weekend.

It was only the PGA tour that made the colossal error of making it us v. them.
 
Ummm, I thought the big reason these guys went to LIV was because they wanted to play less and spend more time with family etc. So they want to play LIV and the PGA Tour too? All those events???? It almost seems like that was not the motivation.
 
donaldross said:
not all of them but 2. and they aren't exclusive. where did you hear they were exclusive? liv has and always has encouraged players to play any and everywhere as you can plainly see by LIV players in the US Open and the European tour this weekend.

It was only the PGA tour that made the colossal error of making it us v. them.
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This is so stupid. I'm just going to say it. Stupid. I am sure you aren't ignorant as you are educated apparently. But this is just so stupid I can't even mess with it again. Goddamn man
 
donaldross said:
not all of them but 2. and they aren't exclusive. where did you hear they were exclusive? liv has and always has encouraged players to play any and everywhere as you can plainly see by LIV players in the US Open and the European tour this weekend.

It was only the PGA tour that made the colossal error of making it us v. them.
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They must not be confidential either then. Let's see them!
 
As pointed out by Guitar Deac, every PGAT player that has signed with the LIV has withdrawn from the upcoming PGAT event, even before any PGAT ban. Recent examples include:

-Patrick Reed at the Canadian Open: he was entered, he had not played in any LIV event, but he withdrew after announcing he signed with LIV
- Koepka this week at the Travelers: again, Bryce was entered, eligible to play, but withdrew after signing with LIV

Also, there have been reports that the LIV contracts contain terms that: a) require the players to play in every LIV event; b) limit the non-LIV events that they can enter.

Finally, the talking points for every player that has joined LIV have always focused on how much free time they will have by signing with LIV. Have not heard a single LIV player who said that he plans to enter (or try to enter) any PGA event after signing with LIV. In fact, they have almost uniformly surrendered their tour cards, which makes them ineligible to enter PGA events. As a result, those players likely lack "standing" to sue the PGAT as to have standing the PGAT must have taken a step to prevent the player from playing in PGAT event, and none of these players can claim that if they resigned from the PGAT.

The entire posture of the LIV argument has changed from: PGA Tour players are going to sue the Tour and win; now the prevailing thought is that the LIV players are going to make a ton of Saudi money, and play in fewer events.
 
I cant wait for Mickelson to claim "See? I helped the PGA Tour!" I lay in wait for that. I am ready to first laugh, then see how fucking stupid that sounds.
 
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Look, these guys are taking an upfront check with the expectation that the LIV fails and they get back on Tour. They have their big fat check in that account and they're right back where they started again, but much richer. Blood money in hand, they have ruined their reputation but they hope people forget as they play the PGA Tour again. It is all nothing more than that. It really is that simple. The aging ones who are past their primes - which is almost every one of them - were just desperate to set themselves up to live high on the hog as they can't really compete with the best anymore. They think they are using the LIV and laughing to the bank.

And, Pilchard is smart
 
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guitardeac said:
Look, these guys are taking an upfront check with the expectation that the LIV fails and they get back on Tour. They have their big fat check in that account and they're right back where they started again, but much richer. Blood money in hand, they have ruined their reputation but they hope people forget as they play the PGA Tour again. It is all nothing more than that. It really is that simple. The aging ones who are past their primes - which is almost every one of them - were just desperate to set themselves up to live high on the hog as they can't really compete with the best anymore. They think they are using the LIV and laughing to the bank.

And, Pilchard is smart
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Nah, this makes way too much sense. It's all about growing the game and forcing change on the PGA tour!
 
donaldross said:
No I was 100% right and you were wrong. The LIV, if handled the way Monahan approached it, will result in millions and millions more for PGA Tours. Phil and Norman won.

If the PGA Tour does try to actually enforce their bans, which I seriously doubt now that they have admitted their approach was horrible, they will lose in Court too.
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The PGA will take actions that will end up in more money for players, in response to the competition from LiV for players - in that way Mickleson may have won a small victory - of course he won't reap any of the benefits since he is not playing on the Tour anymore. Whatever value he may place on that victory is far outweighed by what he has lost in the value of his perceived character and his "name" - though I realize all you care about is the all mighty dollar... The same goes for all the other guys that have jumped - at least the ones whose name carried any value anyway.


I don't know where you are coming from on the PGA losing in court on the issue of their bans. Most of the players that jumped have resigned from the tour anyway, so does the Tour even need to "ban" them? In any event, I think their position is pretty solid. The Tour and its tournaments have eligibility requirements - if they are not met, you don't play.
 
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It’s incredible how known business titan donaldross relentlessly praises the Saudi “business model” which basically amounts to taking gigantic sums of money and lighting it on fire.
 
scooter84 said:
The PGA will take actions that will end up in more money for players, in response to the competition from LiV for players - in that way Mickleson may have won a small victory - of course he won't reap any of the benefits since he is not playing on the Tour anymore. Whatever value he may play on the that victory is far outweighed to what he has lost in the value of his perceived character and his "name" - though I realize all you care about is the all mighty dollar... The same goes for all the other guys that have jumped - at least the ones whose name carried any value anyway.


I don't know where you are coming from on the PGA losing in court on the issue of their bans. Most of the players that jumped have resigned from the tour anyway, so does the Tour even need to "ban" them? In any event, I think their position is pretty solid. The Tour and its tournaments have eligibility requirements - if they are not met, you don't play.
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Lawyers will always insert a way for them to get paid. I'm impressed this issue seems to be taking care of itself without going to court.
 
guitardeac said:
I cant wait for Mickelson to claim "See? I helped the PGA Tour!" I lay in wait for that. I am ready to first laugh, then see how fucking stupid that sounds.
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He helped the top dog golfers on the PGA Tour. At least in the short run
 
guitardeac said:
This is so stupid. I'm just going to say it. Stupid. I am sure you aren't ignorant as you are educated apparently. But this is just so stupid I can't even mess with it again. Goddamn man
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The one thing we can both agree on is we don’t believe the other is very smart.
 
Donnie is not dumb, he is just very very committed to his schtick, and his schtick is he is always right and anyone who disagrees with him is stupid.

So he’s basically a monkey flinging his own shit and then laughing at whoever gets hit.
 
Pilchard is very, very smart. I disagree with him on many things. But I’ve known him for 20 years mainly through this board and he is one of the smartest, most deep thinking guys I know. He knows sports amazingly well.

John Currie is my top choice for Wake AD. But Pilchard would be second.

They both manage dumbass red tape way better than me. And there is no job in the country that takes as much kissing ass of complete dumbasses than being the Wake Forest AD!
 
Pilchard said:
As pointed out by Guitar Deac, every PGAT player that has signed with the LIV has withdrawn from the upcoming PGAT event, even before any PGAT ban. Recent examples include:

-Patrick Reed at the Canadian Open: he was entered, he had not played in any LIV event, but he withdrew after announcing he signed with LIV
- Koepka this week at the Travelers: again, Bryce was entered, eligible to play, but withdrew after signing with LIV

Also, there have been reports that the LIV contracts contain terms that: a) require the players to play in every LIV event; b) limit the non-LIV events that they can enter.

Finally, the talking points for every player that has joined LIV have always focused on how much free time they will have by signing with LIV. Have not heard a single LIV player who said that he plans to enter (or try to enter) any PGA event after signing with LIV. In fact, they have almost uniformly surrendered their tour cards, which makes them ineligible to enter PGA events. As a result, those players likely lack "standing" to sue the PGAT as to have standing the PGAT must have taken a step to prevent the player from playing in PGAT event, and none of these players can claim that if they resigned from the PGAT.

The entire posture of the LIV argument has changed from: PGA Tour players are going to sue the Tour and win; now the prevailing thought is that the LIV players are going to make a ton of Saudi money, and play in fewer events.
Click to expand...

The exception to this is Phil. He has been quite vocal about how he’s earned his lifetime exemption. If there is to be litigation over this, I would not be surprised to see Phil be the one to push the issue.
 
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