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Saudi World Golf Tour 2022/2023 Thread

Rory shot the worst score besides Hovland until you get down to Adam Scott at t-15. Yeah, he hit every green but he did not play well. -2 yesterday is sub par golf for the top of the leaderboard. Cam Smith went and got it, but there were lots of 5,6,7 under rounds yesterday and Rory put up a -2 to finish 3rd.
 
Another piece of good news for Wake golfers was Kupcho easily won the team event this past week playing with Salas. Third win of the year. Not sure if Nelly Korda or Danielle Kang have won 3 in a year.
 
LIV is gonna get Feherty and maybe Barkley? Seems like they will eventually get an audience. Also seems like they are shooting themselves in the foot for World Ranking points. Those guys don’t really scream “ultra competitive golf”.

They are getting big names though. The majors will want at least a good chunk of these players for at least the next several years. If they all suck in the majors because they are fat and happy with huge paydays and don’t practice/keep grinding, that will hurt the brand and free up the majors to exclude them.

But there is no way after that show from Smith that any major will exclude him next year. He took down Rory with a 30 on the back nine at St Andrew’s. LIV gets him and they at least eliminate a “complete LIV ban” for a couple years.
 
I was thinking about what would actually get me to watch another LIV event after the horrific initial one - it was so bad it didn't occur to me to even look in on the 2nd. Cam Smith ain't doing it, as sad as it would be to not see him on the PGA Tour next year he's not that big a draw.

It's obviously not bigger prize pools, most of the decent players have already been paid absurd money before teeing it up so even they barely care. The team thing is pointless. The format probably makes it easier to watch round one but is a total mess at the end, plus it trashes course design by pretending order doesn't matter (who wouldn't love playing Sawgrass #17 as their 3rd hole instead...). Terrible picture quality didn't help either.

But you have to assume they aren't going to suddenly start allowing a normal amount of players, playing courses in order, adding a cut, etc. So what can they do? Maybe if they gave you a 4k-quality feed of each big name player, and actually did mic them up with their caddies (from what I saw that promise didn't deliver at all, but those stupid microphones in the cups sure worked)? Or maybe they could spend some of those hundreds of millions on crazy amped-up betting. Like really bonkers multipliers and odds boosts on a hole-by-hole basis. Bet $20 on Dustin Johnson to eagle this par 5 boosted to a 100x payout... Or just go the opposite direction and embrace the crazy. Like do a 3 club tourney, play one event with balata balls and wooden-shafted clubs, find a multi-course facility and make a 10,000 yard course, play one in Siberia/Haiti/North Korea, etc. I might watch that for a few minutes.
 
I was thinking about what would actually get me to watch another LIV event after the horrific initial one - it was so bad it didn't occur to me to even look in on the 2nd. Cam Smith ain't doing it, as sad as it would be to not see him on the PGA Tour next year he's not that big a draw.

It's obviously not bigger prize pools, most of the decent players have already been paid absurd money before teeing it up so even they barely care. The team thing is pointless. The format probably makes it easier to watch round one but is a total mess at the end, plus it trashes course design by pretending order doesn't matter (who wouldn't love playing Sawgrass #17 as their 3rd hole instead...). Terrible picture quality didn't help either.

But you have to assume they aren't going to suddenly start allowing a normal amount of players, playing courses in order, adding a cut, etc. So what can they do? Maybe if they gave you a 4k-quality feed of each big name player, and actually did mic them up with their caddies (from what I saw that promise didn't deliver at all, but those stupid microphones in the cups sure worked)? Or maybe they could spend some of those hundreds of millions on crazy amped-up betting. Like really bonkers multipliers and odds boosts on a hole-by-hole basis. Bet $20 on Dustin Johnson to eagle this par 5 boosted to a 100x payout... Or just go the opposite direction and embrace the crazy. Like do a 3 club tourney, play one event with balata balls and wooden-shafted clubs, find a multi-course facility and make a 10,000 yard course, play one in Siberia/Haiti/North Korea, etc. I might watch that for a few minutes.

Agreed - I think they've gotta embrace the crazy format for it to be interesting
 
Agreed. That’s the problem. Is “pure” golf on tv really something that non diehard golfers/golf fans will watch? Tiger brought that but no one else ever has. So there is no room in my opinion for both the PGA Tour and whatever LIV is trying to build. One will fail and maybe both.

If you go to true “goofy golf” maybe you get viewers, but these golf nerds who have devoted their lives to being good at actual golf don’t have the personality to carry goofy golf and trying would eliminate any chance of being taken seriously for world ranking points and the like.

They would have been better off recruiting everyday “scratch” golfers with personalities who love to gamble playing a $20 Nassau 2-down auto press, paid them $500k a year with incentives, and marketed the shit out of it turning some of them into celebrities.

Then you could also have real goofy golf, gambling, gimmee putts, speed up play, players who are fresh and new and that people may care about, and a potentially-good made-for-tv “tour” that could bring lots of eyeballs - particularly if played during the week or something. I would definitely tune in to see a club champion who is a +1 and lifelong hustler try to get up and down for a bogey to win $5 million or something. Way better than watching Sergio do so.

Of course, that assumes the intent behind the whole thing was to get a tv deal and make money as opposed to sportswashing.

Now the only way to have success is to get to critical mass with top 30 players, thereby possibly destroying both the PGA Tour and LIV.

Really a fascinating thing to watch unfold.
 
I don’t care if they have the top 48 players in the world. Until LIV has a structure where being a member of the tour is earned, and it can be lost with poor play, their tournaments are going to continue to lack interest.

People don’t watch sports to see the best compete just for money. They do it for the drama. That’s what the tour is lacking more than anything.
 
I don’t care if they have the top 48 players in the world. Until LIV has a structure where being a member of the tour is earned, and it can be lost with poor play, their tournaments are going to continue to lack interest.

People don’t watch sports to see the best compete just for money. They do it for the drama. That’s what the tour is lacking more than anything.

Your overall point is somewhat valid, but nobody watches PGA tour events to see who will gain/lose tour cards, that’s not where the drama comes from. Nobody really cares whether Rickie Fowler loses his tour card, that doesn’t generate massive interest.
 
Nobody watches anything but the majors regardless

Yeah. Golf is a niche sport with an affluent fanbase. The PGA Tour happens to be the top pro golf tour in the richest country in the world. They were fortunate enough to have Arnie, Jack, and Tiger who transcended the sport and helped a lot of people get paid.

The big question is if the PGA Tour has a sustainable model with LIV picking away at it with an unsustainable model of their own. You all are big golf fans. It speaks volumes if there’s not a specific talent tipping point that would get you to switch to LIV. That suggests that talent isn’t the key.
 
Yeah. Golf is a niche sport with an affluent fanbase. The PGA Tour happens to be the top pro golf tour in the richest country in the world. They were fortunate enough to have Arnie, Jack, and Tiger who transcended the sport and helped a lot of people get paid.

The big question is if the PGA Tour has a sustainable model with LIV picking away at it with an unsustainable model of their own. You all are big golf fans. It speaks volumes if there’s not a specific talent tipping point that would get you to switch to LIV. That suggests that talent isn’t the key.

Sure there is, it's Tiger
 
Although pure viewers might not matter that much. Watching the British Open this past weekend making me want a new Day Date matters somewhat.
 
Your overall point is somewhat valid, but nobody watches PGA tour events to see who will gain/lose tour cards, that’s not where the drama comes from. Nobody really cares whether Rickie Fowler loses his tour card, that doesn’t generate massive interest.

It’s not player specific, but those stories are compelling for golf fans when they watch each event. It’s obviously not the only reason golf fans watch, but it’s part of the overall interest. LIV has no drama right now. No cut, everyone gets paid, and no matter what happens everyone will continue to play on the tour and keep making lots of money with no risk. Great for them, but not very entertaining.
 
Golf is an old game and it's about tradition and traditions. The people who play it and watch it like it with those traditions. The LIV is a sideshow and an offensive one at that and that's all it will ever be. The only thing it's accomplishing or ever will accomplish is to blatantly show that people have a price for their dignity. It seems to be around $100 million, give or take $50MM depending on who you are. Gross.
 
Your overall point is somewhat valid, but nobody watches PGA tour events to see who will gain/lose tour cards, that’s not where the drama comes from. Nobody really cares whether Rickie Fowler loses his tour card, that doesn’t generate massive interest.

I'm in the vast minority on this and probably for good reason, but one of my favorite viewing tournaments of the year is the Wyndham (final regular season event) to see guys in that 110-175 range either grinding or throwing caution to the wind in order to hang onto or steal a spot on next year's exempt tour. When the player is on the green with a 6-footer and the greenside monitor shows "projected FedEx finish 125", that's some pretty good drama right there, both from a golf and humanity angle.
But you're right, that's not the appeal for the casual golf viewer.
 
I'm in the vast minority on this and probably for good reason, but one of my favorite viewing tournaments of the year is the Wyndham (final regular season event) to see guys in that 110-175 range either grinding or throwing caution to the wind in order to hang onto or steal a spot on next year's exempt tour. When the player is on the green with a 6-footer and the greenside monitor shows "projected FedEx finish 125", that's some pretty good drama right there, both from a golf and humanity angle.
But you're right, that's not the appeal for the casual golf viewer.

one of the few times tv makes any attempt to build up some drama at the tournaments. a great idea that some in golf media have suggested is on Friday's to have a "Cut Watch" that you can build storylines around. Unfortunately the tv product sucks and all they care about is selling ads and showing an assload of commercials
 
LIV also has offered nothing innovative format-wise (or otherwise). 54 holes? Wow, let's make like we are the Champions Tour. Shotgun start? Yeah, let's make like we are a Friday afternoon charity scramble. Both decrease pressure and drama. Never mind the crappy fields. It is a terrible product and even with the top players it would not match the PGA Tour, or even close.

The Saudis can do what they want, even kill the PGA Tour. They offer guaranteed fees so much higher than market it is ridiculous. And people can cheer them on for some unknown reason and criticize the PGA Tour. But if players (and broadcasters) are willing to take the absurd amounts of money, the PGA Tour can't match that. So long as LIV mandates 12-14 tournaments or whatever, the two products will not successfully share players because the players won't commit to nearly 30 events. It could be devastating for golf in general and golf fans, but hey, if all that matters is money, than who cares, right?
 
Feel like tennis is more of niche sport than golf, yet there is apparently enough of a hard-core tennis fan base to have propped up the Tennis Channel for the last 21 years, and the various tennis tours.

Don't see the LIV Tour going away in the near term because, even though it's following is on the level of Arena League football, it's the first sports start up ever that doesn't need to make money. The purpose of the LIV Tour is not earn money for the Saudis, and they have a limitless bank account. So, unless they get bored by the endeavor, they can fund it forever. Even so, think there are enough golf fans, and more importantly sponsors that will follow/support the PGA Tour even if LIV takes more than the current haul of old golfers and golfers having crappy years. Just don't see the LIV Circus Act drawing enough fans away from the PGAT to the point where it becomes unsustainable. Would be awful if that happens, because LIV doesn't provide an avenue for younger golfers to earn their way on to that tour. LIV just leaches off the rep that golfers earned on the PGAT and DP Tour.

As an aside, so funny to me that LIV paid $200 million to get the exclusive rights to 52 year-old Phil Mickleson. Here are Phil's results this year in his 6 non LIV events:

Fortinet Championship: T36
Sentry Tournament of Champions: T30 (no cut event - 38 man field)
The American Express: CUT
Farmers Insurance Open: CUT
US Open: CUT
Open Championship: CUT

So, even if LIV didn't exist, Phil would've been a complete non-factor on the PGA Tour, as in he wouldn't have been a weekend draw in any PGA event. That's what the Saudis paid $200 million for, and a washed up golfer that belongs on the Champions Tour, with Steve Stricker and Jerry Kelly. If LIV is going to pay that kind of money for non-factors like Mickelson, the PGA Tour can't compete with that ability to essentially light money on fire. You have to play well to earn money on the PGAT. Would be sad if the competition requirement was essentially eliminated from the highest level of professional golf. Really sucks that an a-hole like Greg Norman found an bottom-less money source to fund his scheme to destroy the PGAT.
 
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