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Saudi World Golf Tour 2022/2023 Thread

Pilchard said:
The players leaving will matter if it starts impacting PGA event sponsorships and ratings. To me, there is not a LIV golfer who impacts my interest in the PGA Tour, and as mentioned above, the few "good" players that have left for LIV are having a crappy season; so, they were unlikely to get the end of the season PGA Tour Championship payday.

What will matter if Farmers' Insurance, Sony or Wells Fargo decide that the PGA Tour has been reduced to the point that its not worth it kick in the big bucks to sponsor their events because they feel the field are weak and interest is limited. Always thought Bryson was a tool, but what minor interest my kids have in watching golf was essentially to watch how far he could hit the ball. Will TV ratings suffer without Brooks and Bryson?

The LIV Tour is so flawed, as mentioned above, it needs the PGA Tour to create the names and reputations of the golfers that it poaches, but remains to be seen if the PGA Tour can keep the infrastructure in place to keep developing the best players. There's going to be major pressure to increase purses and have fewer standard PGA events to keep the big names, and in the long run, that means fewer tournament opportunities for up and coming players to build their brand. Will be very interesting to see what the 2023 season looks like.
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I think this is the correct take, and I'm not as confident as Guitardeac is about it not mattering at all. The PGA tour will still be the preeminent tour, whereas, even if the LIV lands a regular tv contract, it's still a novelty that won't generate much viewership by contrast. But if LIV continues to get more of the better players, it could hurt future purses and maybe the number of events. I will feel better once the DP issues the same suspensions as the PGA did because then the LIV players will only get meager ranking points from the Asian tour. However, if LIV and the DP were to make their peace so that the LIV guys could play the DP events, then that's really going to harm the PGA.
 
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/pg...avelers-championship-changes-to-fall-schedule

Starting next year, the fall portion of the PGA Tour schedule will include eight limited-field no-cut events, with $20 million purses each, for the top 50 finishers in the prior season’s FedEx Cup standings. Those outside the top 50 will compete in an alternate series of tournaments, where they will fight to keep their cards and earn better status for the following season. This change in structure would happen in conjunction with the tour returning to a season based on the calendar year, something Golf Digest has reported was being considered. The tour switched from a calendar-based schedule to a wraparound campaign in 2013-14.
 
Brooks leaving isn't surprising. He fits the mold of the pretty unlikeable player whose best days are behind him. He's also said in the past he only cares about playing majors, so he can play in majors and collect Saudi money. I just don't see a world where the LIV Tour produces stars. It may continue to try to poach PGA Tour names, but it can't sustain itself without the PGA Tour.
 
It will only get real when a successful and likeable young player such as Rory, Spieth, Thomas, Morikawa, or Zalatoris leaves. Don't see that happening and it looks like the Tour will adjust to compete as well (a good thing).
 
deacz said:
It will only get real when a successful and likeable young player such as Rory, Spieth, Thomas, Morikawa, or Zalatoris leaves. Don't see that happening and it looks like the Tour will adjust to compete as well (a good thing).
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Ok, disagree that it's not real. Has been real the whole time. PGA Tour screwed this up and still is.

But at lease you have us a list. I bet someone on that list flips in the next month. And stately Wake Forest alums will still pretend all is well.
 
I mean Bryson and Koepka were just featured in the match. It's real now that both are gone. But I'm not sure how much it affects the regular PGA tour.... was anyone watching the non-majors to begin with?
 
I watch all the time but Bryson's been hurt all season and Koepka doesn't play anyway.

However, you can't keep losing good to great players and expect to have a good product to show people every weekend. Some of the current tournaments on uninteresting courses with low purses don't attract a decent field already. The way the PGA tour is set up to basically force guys to grind through events to keep their card and earn FedEx points is why so many guys want out.
 
BiffTannen said:
I watch all the time but Bryson's been hurt all season and Koepka doesn't play anyway.

However, you can't keep losing good to great players and expect to have a good product to show people every weekend. Some of the current tournaments on uninteresting courses with low purses don't attract a decent field already. The way the PGA tour is set up to basically force guys to grind through events to keep their card and earn FedEx points is why so many guys want out.
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It's almost as if the Tour recognizes that it needs a consistent product for viewers to attract sponsors and advertisers to have money to pay purses . . .
 
Could you imagine the public's reaction if a majority African American league (NBA) had star players leaving to join a rival league because they complained working from October-May was too onerous and the new league would allow them to only work 2-3 months out of the year?
 
The reality is very few players on tour move the needle. I don’t tune into a random tour event because of who’s playing, and I’d suspect most golf fans are the same. There’s only one player in the world that people go out of their way to watch when he’s playing. Everyone else is almost interchangeable.
 
MichDeac25 said:
Could you imagine the public's reaction if a majority African American league (NBA) had star players leaving to join a rival league because they complained working from October-May was too onerous and the new league would allow them to only work 2-3 months out of the year?
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Yeah really. There's enough complaints about NBA load management as is. PGA Tour golfers aren't even slacking off due to injury. They're slacking off because they make plenty of money and don't need to show up from week to week. Now some bolt for another tour so they can make more money by playing even less.

I don't see the problem with the PGA Tour trying to get as many players as possible to show up every week.

Les Grossman said:
The reality is very few players on tour move the needle. I don’t tune into a random tour event because of who’s playing, and I’d suspect most golf fans are the same. There’s only one player in the world that people go out of their way to watch when he’s playing. Everyone else is almost interchangeable.
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There's not much of a needle to move though. That's part of the problem. The PGA Tour has a small but affluent fan base that attracts high-end sponsors. If the needle moves at all, that's a problem.
 
MichDeac25 said:
Could you imagine the public's reaction if a majority African American league (NBA) had star players leaving to join a rival league because they complained working from October-May was too onerous and the new league would allow them to only work 2-3 months out of the year?
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Thanks for bringing race into the discussion. A critical aspect of this issue that was being overlooked...
 
I read that LIV members will be allowed to play in this week's Germany event, which is 1 of their lesser paydays. But no word on the Irish and Scottish Opens the following 2 weeks, which are bigger paying Rolex events. The LIV players being able to play Rolex events would be a bigger blow to the PGA than the slow trickle of players leaving, and it would entice more big names to go.
 
Wow. Caught up in the jetstream. You guys are WAY overstating it. There is absolutely NO WAY - NO WAY - the impact of LIV will be enough to affect the PGA Tour in term of tournaments, sponsors, partners etc. My gosh. Absolutely absurd. This will all last a couple of months and then life moves on. Bryson does not move the PGA Tour needle. You can't even tell how far he hits it on TV and if hes the longest it is barely. Tour stars age out every year and their games drop off and they are nowhere to be found ont he leaderboard, and there's a reason the pGA Tour stays around and thrives. Tiger doesnt even play anymore and his impact to the tour and a given tournament is 50 times all of these LIV guys put together andt bhe PGA Tour still has massive TV viewership and sponsors and partners knocking down the door. It is absolutely absurd to think these guys that are taking the big up front checks are going to have any impact whatsoever on the viability of the PGA Tour.
 
PhDeac said:
Yeah really. There's enough complaints about NBA load management as is. PGA Tour golfers aren't even slacking off due to injury. They're slacking off because they make plenty of money and don't need to show up from week to week. Now some bolt for another tour so they can make more money by playing even less.

I don't see the problem with the PGA Tour trying to get as many players as possible to show up every week.

There's not much of a needle to move though. That's part of the problem. The PGA Tour has a small but affluent fan base that attracts high-end sponsors. If the needle moves at all, that's a problem.
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A mid-level PGA tour player who plays three straight events is basically gone for three straight weeks -- traveling, practicing, or playing every day. That's assuming he makes the cut and plays on the weekend and actually gets paid, because if you don't make the cut, you don't get jack. The average PGA tour player made $1.5 million in winnings in 2021. These guys make money through endorsements, but if they're not playing, and winning, they can't get endorsement money, and nobody sees the logos on their shits and hats every week.

Here are some more takeaways from the 2021 money list:

Jon Rahm led the PGA Tour in the 2021 season with $7,705,933 won. He earned that in 22 events, including his victory at the U.S. Open. That’s an average of $350,269.68 per event.

Louis Oosthuizen won the most money ($6,306,679, seventh overall) without winning an event.

Other players in the Top 25 who did well without winning are Xander Schauffele (12th at $5,240,653); Scott Scheffler (19th at $4,505,589); Sungjae Im (22nd at $4,157,182) and Corey Conners (25th at $4,007,567).

Brian Gay finished the lowest on the list of any player who won an event. The reigning Bermuda Championship winner was 135th on the money list and banked $916,158.

Lee Westwood was the only player in the Top 30 who played less than 20 events. He made $3,435,368 in 19.
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The projected NBA minimum salary for a 5-year vet is $2,000,000 for someone who probably barely plays.
 
guitardeac said:
Wow. Caught up in the jetstream. You guys are WAY overstating it. There is absolutely NO WAY - NO WAY - the impact of LIV will be enough to affect the PGA Tour in term of tournaments, sponsors, partners etc. My gosh. Absolutely absurd. This will all last a couple of months and then life moves on. Bryson does not move the PGA Tour needle. You can't even tell how far he hits it on TV and if hes the longest it is barely. Tour stars age out every year and their games drop off and they are nowhere to be found ont he leaderboard, and there's a reason the pGA Tour stays around and thrives. Tiger doesnt even play anymore and his impact to the tour and a given tournament is 50 times all of these LIV guys put together andt bhe PGA Tour still has massive TV viewership and sponsors and partners knocking down the door. It is absolutely absurd to think these guys that are taking the big up front checks are going to have any impact whatsoever on the viability of the PGA Tour.
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Hope you are correct.

FWIW, the LIV Tour has already had a material impact on the PGA Tour model. As noted in the article linked by DeacHawk above, the PGA will now play 8 (LIV Tour has 8 events this year) limited field (top 50 players - LIV has 48), no cut (LIV has no cut) events for purses of $20 million+ (the purse for the initial LIV Tour event was $20 million). Those coincidences aren't accidental. Essentially, the PGA Tour is copying various aspects of the LIV Tour model to entice players to stay. Guessing those events will offer so many Fed Ex Cup points, that it will be essentially impossible for a top 50 player to play himself out of the Fed Ex Cup now, even if he finishes DFL in all 8 "mega" events, which is why a lot of aging stars left for LIV -- they didn't want to have to play in the Barbasol to ensure they had enough points to play in the top tournaments. The PGAT will also lighten the minimum event requirements to address the benefit that LIV Tour players have more free time.
 
Biff, you've explained why the structure of the sport works against the PGA Tour need to have a consistent slate of players from week to week to promote the game. It also works against the LIV because golf fans are used to top players not showing up from week to week.

I'm not sure of your point otherwise.
 
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